1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

OMG! Relaxing pot laws doesn't cause minors to use more!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Newshawk: August 21 & 22 http://www.hempfest.org/
    Pubdate: Wed, 18 Aug 2004
    Source: Seattle Times (WA)
    Copyright: 2004 The Seattle Times Company
    Contact: opinion@seattletimes.com
    Website: http://www.seattletimes.com/
    Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/409
    Author: Bob Young, Seattle Times staff reporter
    Photo: Thomas James Hurst / the Seattle Times - Dominic Holden is an organizer at this year's Hempfest, which will be this weekend, and was a spokesman for I-75. http://www.mapinc.org/images/hempfest.jpg
    Cited: Seattle Hempfest http://www.hempfest.org/
    Cited: NORML http://www.norml.org
    Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/pot.htm (Cannabis)
    Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/topics/Seattle+Hempfest

    mar1juana MEASURE CALLED EFFECTIVE BY SUPPORTERS AND FOES

    Seattleites aren't going to pot -- or jail -- since voters passed I-75, the initiative that made mar1juana the city's lowest law-enforcement priority.

    The number of people prosecuted for pot possession has plummeted, and despite predictions of naysayers, there is no evidence of widespread public pot consumption as a result of the measure, which voters approved last year.

    To Dominic Holden, spokesman for the I-75 campaign, that means Hempfest this weekend will likely be more fragrant than last year, as attendees at the annual pro-pot event will have yet another reason to whoop it up -- and light up.

    Approved by 58 percent of Seattle voters in last September's election, I-75 relaxes enforcement against adults possessing 40 grams or less of pot for personal use. The measure did not change city policies toward sellers or minors.

    The initiative appears to be working as intended, according to Holden and City Attorney Tom Carr, an outspoken opponent of I-75.

    Statistics for the first six months of 2004 show that the city has prosecuted just 18 cases of mar1juana possession compared with roughly 70 during the same time period last year.

    "The early indication is that I-75 has been highly effective. That seems the only way you could explain the drastic reduction in cases," said Holden, a member of the city-sanctioned mar1juana Policy Review Panel created by the initiative.

    Carr agreed. "I think police received the message that they are not supposed to emphasize enforcement," he said.

    In the state of Washington, possession of 40 grams or less of mar1juana is a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine.

    The success of I-75 has put Seattle on the cutting edge of national mar1juana-policy reform, Holden added. Activists in other cities such as Oakland, Calif.; Tallahassee, Fla.; and Columbia, Mo., are preparing similar measures, and advocates in Seattle are talking about the possibility of liberalizing mar1juana-possession laws on a statewide level.

    Keith Stroup, founder of the National Organization for the Reform of mar1juana Laws, said initiatives such as I-75 help police chiefs and elected leaders focus on more-serious crimes without worrying about the political backlash of appearing soft on pot.

    "With the support of a majority of the voters, it makes it far easier for the chief to lower the priority given to minor mar1juana offenses, which apparently has already begun to occur in Seattle," Stroup said.

    Meanwhile, some Seattleites may be enjoying another benefit of I-75 -- less paranoia.

    "People no longer feel they need to close the blinds when they do a bong hit after work," said Holden, 27, a waiter.

    Dangers predicted by I-75 critics have not materialized. White House drug czar John Walters came to Seattle last year and warned about increased pot use among teenagers.

    Carr voiced a similar concern, worrying that high-school students would misunderstand the measure, think pot was entirely legal and smoke it in public. But that hasn't happened, he acknowledged.

    "I'm glad I was wrong," he said. "There is nothing to suggest I-75 has caused widespread use of mar1juana in Seattle."

    Still, Carr isn't sure the I-75 data is as rosy as Holden suggests. The city attorney said he couldn't draw firm conclusions from a data sample that represents a fraction of the 15,000 total cases filed by his office each year.

    He also stressed that mar1juana enforcement was already a low priority for Seattle police before I-75 passed -- his office prosecuted 196 cases in 2000, 138 in 2001, 161 in 2002 and 144 last year.

    The impact of I-75 will be better understood as more data -- including the race of those arrested for possession -- is delivered to the city's 15-member pot panel, which is chaired by Councilman Nick Licata, and includes Carr and representatives from the police department and the King County Prosecuting Attorney's Office.

    As part of I-75's mandate, the panel must write reports in 2006 and 2007 on the effect of the measure.

    Licata agrees with Stroup that I-75 may help Seattle focus on more-serious drug issues.

    "If you adopt a minor reform and the sky doesn't fall, it opens up broader discussions about how to deal with our drug problem, which isn't mar1juana; it's crack, meth[amphetamine] and heroin," he said.

    In the meantime, Holden predicted that people will more relaxed at this year's Hempfest and "there might be more smoking."

    Carr said he didn't know how police would treat public pot smoking at Hempfest, but he did note that mar1juana possession remains a state and federal crime.

    So, when it comes to bong hits in front of a window, Carr offered this advice: "If I was doing that, I'd close the blinds."
     
  2. Chump

    Chump Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    0

    :D
     
  3. kpsta

    kpsta Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2001
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    166
    Holden? :(
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Huh?
     
  5. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53
    No.

    It just causes them to sit around the house instead of being productive.
     
  6. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Did you even read the article???

    They specifically said that there was NO evidence that this ordinance has caused an uptick in usage by either minors or adults.

    And if adults choose to go home and smoke a j, how is that any worse than going home and having a few beers, a martini, or a Valium?
     
  7. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    I suppose it's better than the War on Drugs, but i really have a distaste for decriminalization and relaxed enforcement.

    The problem, as i see it, with the ol' drug industry is the organized crime and dealers. They will continue to exist as long as the substances are illegal. Legalization is the *only* viable solution. Lessening the risk simply increases the lucrativeness for the dealers. We've removed much of their risk, but none of their cash flow. But politicians are too scared to agree to legalizaiton -- so they compromise.

    The drug industry is a huge business. And it's a dirty business. And it's a violent business. We simply have to remove it from the shadows -- and take away the money stream from the low-lifes who prey on the disadvantaged and abuse neighbourhoods, communities and individuals. As Andy may have mentioned once (or twice?) prohibition does not work. All that's bad about drugs can be traced to the business model our laws have thrust on this very lucrative industry.

    At some point, we simply have to say, that, like alcohol, we have to accept certain drugs as part of our society and ensure that their distribution is regulated and abides by the standards we expect of other businesses.

    Some see decriminalization and lessened enforcement as a step in this direction. I fear that sometimes it's used to avoid the more important step of legalization.
     
  8. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    I agree with you on relaxed enforcement versus regulation of the industry. The positive I see here is in the data we receive regarding the effect (or lack thereof) that reducing penalties has on rates of use. If we can show that in the US, as in Holland, relaxed enforcement does not cause higher usage rates, the movement to regulate drug sales will gain momentum.

    I am sure that this is the reason that the prohibitionists fight ANY reform tooth and nail. They are aware that once Americans see that relaxing drug laws doesn't cause the widespread destruction that they tout, we will move to strike these counterproductive, destructive laws from the books.
     
  9. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    Read your own sig. Learn something.
     
  10. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53
    I didn't say there was an "uptick in usage".

    I stand by my statement: pot causes minors to be unproductive, munchie eating, skateboard riding, hacky sack playing losers.
     
  11. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53
    I've learnt all I need to know, Tex.
    I got knowledge oozing out of my pores.
     
  12. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    6,516
    Likes Received:
    2,182
    Damn kids and their music.
     
  13. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    14,382
    Likes Received:
    13
    what a loser:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2000
    Messages:
    18,050
    Likes Received:
    1,271
    I must be the anomaly in Fao's universe....

    I toked from the time I was 16 till I was 36...and I was mighty productive...college degrees...worked everyday...a productive member of society.

    the only difference was that instead of going home after work and drinking a 6 pack of beer, or having a few drinks to unwind....I smoked a joint. The same effect as drinking, except I never had the urge to be violent or go driving around while intoxicated or any other behavior associated with drunks...


    oh...and btw....hackysack playing does not a loser make.

    its great for the foot/eye coordination and helps keep you active(as opposed to being stuck on the couch being a non-productive wastrel.)

    personal question to Faos.

    are you truely this judgemental and closeminded in person, or is this just a act in the TJ mold?
     
  15. Drexlerfan22

    Drexlerfan22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    520
    I must say that I agree with those who are calling for legalization. I'm a 19-year-old Californian, and I'm about to return to Marquette (Milwaukee, WI) for my sophmore year. I've never smoked pot, and don't plan to. But from what I've seen, I'd rather have pot government-regulated, just like alcohol. Personally, I think alcohol is far more dangerous (ex: I've heard that it's not even physically possible to smoke enough pot quickly enough to OD... but people die from alcohol poisoning on a fairly regular basis). Even though my new Wisconsin friends look at me like I'm spurting liberal California nonsense when I mention legalizing pot, it seems to be the best solution.
     
  16. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,271
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    Well, it's one tiny step forward, I suppose.
     
  17. Buzz1023

    Buzz1023 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    You don't know much about teenagers, they do that without smoking pot :D .
     
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,785
    Likes Received:
    41,212
    You are a man of parts, my friend. You don't post much in here, but I like it when you do. :cool:
     
  19. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Just none about drugs, drug abuse, or drug policy, huh? All you heard was "Just Say No" and that was enough for you, you just bought it without question. Drug ABUSE is bad, drug MISUSE is bad, but drug USE is neutral. There are risks with any drug including alcohol, but the best way to mitigate those risks is through strong regulation just as we do with alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceuticals. The idea that some drugs are able to addict anyone they enter like a demon posession is a fallacy.

    Even cocaine can be used responsibly. Personally, I learned my lesson with cocaine VERY young and I was lucky. I was able to see that I had a problem at 17 and then chose to do something about it. I learned that my body reacts to cocaine in a way that tends to be rather destructive. However, I have a VERY good friend who is able to use cocaine 3-4 times a year and never develop any issues. I cannot really comprehend how someone is able to use coke and not just want more and more and more. But it is really not my place to judge. He is able to use coke responsibly and I am not. It is just one of those funny things about body chemistry.

    The facts about body chemistry are interesting, too. A relatively small percentage of people has the predisposition to addiction and that percentage has stayed roughly flat even as per capita drug use has risen dramatically since the "War on Drugs" was started by Nixon. The two things that have been shown in studies to impact addiction rates are the age at which one first starts experimenting with mind altering chemicals and the education one receives.

    In other words, the later you start drinking, smoking, or toking, the further your chances of becoming an addict drop. In addition, education, particularly higher education, is another factor that seems to significantly drop addiction rates. People with college degrees are FAR less likely to become addicts, though it is certainly not unheard of.

    Our drug policy makes drugs available to kids at a VERY early age to the point that half of our young people use illegal drugs before they leave high school. Our young people report that it is easier to obtain illegal drugs than alcohol, so one of the measures that can reduce addiction rates is thrown out the window as kids have access to drugs and, being kids, they will experiment.

    Our drug policy also limits education in a number of different ways, the most egregious being the HEA Act provision that strips financial aid for college from anyone convicted of any drug crime. Of course, this will only affect poor people as they are the only ones on financial aid, which is funny because they are also the ones disproportionately affected by the drug war.

    Our approach to drug policy is outdated, counterproductive, and could be the biggest waste of money this country has ever engaged in. We can get our kids off drugs if we approach this problem intelligently and get serious about taking drugs out of the hands of our children. The only way that we can accomplish that goal is through regulation of the market and that is exactly what we must do.
     
  20. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    But how much sense does it make to say...this is illegal...go ahead with your gangs...decimate neighbourhoods...fight amongst yourselves...distribute impure drugs made under unsafe conditions -- and cut them with whatever you see fit...push them on kids...lure others into your distribution network -- and to the front-lines of your battles with your competitors...generate huge amounts of cash -- and the conflicts which accompany that. We wont interfere too much. Just pretend it's not around because we're too timid to address the issue.

    Legalize. Anything else is false comfort.

    (perhaps i'm taited a bit because i live in a place with a pretty open drug policy (Vancouver, B.C) and a bunch of dealers have recently set up shop near my office. There is no denying that they, and some of their clients have a huge detrimental effect on a community).
     

Share This Page