You know I like you DD, but you are just wrong. There is a difference between taking a chance on KPJ, and pushing him as a leader of the team, including encouraging your best young player (Green) to be friends with him........ allowing his to be a distraction in practice and letting him bully players in the organization and employees of the team.... handling his discipline personally, undermining your coaching staff and creating a toxic environment where there is one set of rules for some players and another set of rules for other players... letting him give up in the middle of a game and leave, and giving him a slap on the wrist...... not listening to people like John Lucas.... covering up confrontations with others in the organization and outside the organization.... rewarding him with a long term contract and heralding him as a leader of the team....... This is all symptomatic of REALLY poor judgment, dysfunction and leadership from the top of the organization. Also this is very different than Terrance Williams, who never did 75% of the things that KPJ did - and Williams lasted like 25 games with the Rockets before they had enough of him. Williams was a negative guy off the court - but not like KPJ.
yeh... well... alright, Fk Stone! If kpj has continued to be an ass this whole time (as opposed to what had been reported)... and Stone enabled it... then screw him. This last 3 years shoulda been focused on securing talent and building a culture... that obviously didnt happen... success is fickle - but doing the right thing is fundamental.
You know I like you DD, but you are just wrong. There is a difference between taking a chance on KPJ, and pushing him as a leader of the team, including encouraging your best young player (Green) to be friends with him........ allowing his to be a distraction in practice and letting him bully players in the organization and employees of the team.... handling his discipline personally, undermining your coaching staff and creating a toxic environment where there is one set of rules for some players and another set of rules for other players... letting him give up in the middle of a game and leave, and giving him a slap on the wrist...... not listening to people like John Lucas.... covering up confrontations with others in the organization and outside the organization.... rewarding him with a long term contract and heralding him as a leader of the team....... This is all symptomatic of REALLY poor judgment, dysfunction and leadership from the top of the organization. Also this is very different than Terrance Williams, who never did 75% of the things that KPJ did - and Williams lasted like 25 games with the Rockets before they had enough of him. Williams was a negative guy off the court - but not like KPJ.
I like you too Nook, I just don't think any of this is all that meaningful or permanent and that he is growing into his role. I am not saying mistakes haven't been made they clearly have, but even Morey screwed the pooch from time to time....signing Ariza as a star player, Terrance Williams, Thabeet, Royce....then stepped in it with his Taiwan comments.....and he moved up to a better job. Stone's drafts have been magnificent - his trades....well....TBD at best..... I don't blame him for this KPJ incident, no one saw this coming and anyone that says they did is lying. Sure, he has had issues but nothing pointed to this level of issue - and it is sad for her, for our team, and he deserves whatever comes his way. In the end though, he didn't really hinder a team that was developing, those players still got better, and now he is gone - and we tanked like we wanted to for 3 years....job done. KPJ will be a sorry footnote in Rocket's lore, just like Wiggins and Lloyd getting banned for cocaine....... DD
This is the perfect time for a Patrick Fertitta promotion. I trust him to get the job done. I thought Stone was cut from a different cloth, but he's just Morey from Temu.
It would be another matter if the team was winning, KPJ was a star and Toyota Center was selling out. But all those things happened while the team was actively tanking and building for the future. Stone should absolutely be shown the door. But then... Tilman...
Well I would not have an issue with firing Stone just on the basis that he did create this culture. Can Ime Udoka fix it? I guess maybe if Stone stays away from the team and lets him run coaching duties. I always think it was a big red flag how we treated KPJ of all players like a superstar. Really talented player for sure but mentally didn't get it on the court and really did not prove he deserved any special treatment. Hell, no one on the team deserves special treatment.
100% Nook. All of this. This was pure ego, he wanted getting and “fixing” KPJ to be his “see how smart and great a GM and person move” - and it shows an incredible level of entitlement and narcissism. Could not have said it better myself.
I think Rafael Stone is very overrated on his draft success. 1. 2021 drafted J.Green #2, most mock draft have Green #2, and I think over 70% people on this forum will do the same. the other 30% leaning toward Mobley could be right too, TBD. - Stone did an average job here 2. 2021 drafted Alp Sengun #16. just go back to see the classic thread Trading up to get Alperen Sengun, and 95% voted liked the pick after the draft - i'll give Stone an Above Average for the effort to trade up tho. but most ppl here would take Al P if they have the #16 pick. 3. 2022 drafted J.Smith jr. #3, No brainer, Paolo and Chet off-board, 99% ppl would have picked Bari here. - Average job 4. 2022 drafted Tari Eason #17. lightning strike again here in his thread Case to Trade up for Tari Eason, Clutchfans debated whether to trade up to #7-$15 to get Tari (myself predicted Tari Eason to be available at #17 to Rockets), so when Tari's available at #17 it's pretty easy, i'll give Stone an Average job here. 5. 2023 drafted Amen Thompson #4. Most mock draft have Amen #4, 70% ppl on this forum had Amen. 30% wants Whitmore or others. - Average job 6. 2023 drafted Cam Whitmore #20. as mentioned above, ppl debated whether the Rockets should take Amen Thompson or Cam Whitmore at #4, so when Whitmore is available at #20 i bet 99% Clutchfans would make the same decision here. - Average job 7. 21' Garuba #23, Jaygup #24, 22' TyTy #29. 2 of these 3 first rounders are currently on 2-way contracts trying to get back to the league. how good they'll turn out still up in the air, but the fact Stone used 3 first round picks + 2 second picks to draft and then get rid of these 3 players definitely tells Stone did a Poor job. Stone replaced Morey on Oct. 15, 2020, so KMJ was still Morey's draft. Stone found Tate in the un-drafted free agency Nov. 26, 2020, he did a good job here. Overall, I think Rafael Stone is slightly below average on drafting, very average on signing free agents (good on the non-guaranteed contracts, but over-paid almost everyone, screwed up in the Lopez pursuit), terrible on trading with other teams, and terrible on asset management. i mean, had Tilman Fertitta hire any regular Clutchfans members here i bet 90% of the draft outcome remains the same
Morey and Stone did not have the best relationships to other GMs and President of Basketball operations. Morey had more contacts but people did not want to get fleeced by that nerd.
What the hell are you talking about. Quitting at halftime, pouting on teammates, bulling them as Nook said is considered growing into a role? Dude was taken as a project, given last chance because of his perceived talent even though he was booted of every team he was ever on. You do not give long leash to such people you cut them at the first sign of trouble. Stone not only did not do it, he continued enabling him to the detriment to the the team. Not hindered progress of other players? One thing is a mental impact of daily dealing with coworker psychopath that is being coddled by an employer, which is hard to estimate. But they made him run the team for 2 seasons even though it was obvious from always beginning it will never work. Wouldn't our players benefit from playing with real point guard? Silly question. Not to mention TyTy that we drafted and never really gave a chance. Hard to imagine us having worse record than we did if we would cut KPJ at the beginning of last season and simply rolled with TyTy instead. But the biggest hit on the Rockets is/was a reputation one. Mobley did not want to get drafted here, check out Wemby's relieve when he found out he is not going to have to deal with this nonsense. When Harden left it was all about culture reset, Morey supposedly catered to James too much. Well the culture reset was now Stone instead of catering to an actual MVP was catering to a psycho whose biggest achievement was being compared to James on DraftExpress profile. Stone should be fired even just for PR reasons, as long as he is still here, the bad reputation Rockets have will continue.
Couldn’t have said it better than I could. Only thing I’d add is the tell here that the Rockets in the Stone years have had multiple players that the Rockets draft and there’s this sort of surprise you see from the coaching staff and throwing your hands up in the air that you don’t know what to do with this player. This is a sign of poor homework and a disconnect with coaching staff. A lot of times it just comes down to calling the college coaches of the players you are looking at to get their insights, and having a plan for where they excel etc. There shouldn’t be these big revelations that X player isn’t exactly like how we hoped he would be based on his size and stats. And in the end it is the GM’s job to ensure there’s a good working relationship with the coaches. I don’t want to hear “oh that’s on Silas etc etc.”… no in the end if a CFO is screwing the company over multiple years with bad financial decisions, it is on the CEO for making a bad hire and not firing them when things happened the first time that were obviously a problem. The fact is GM’s are really in a golden era of mock drafts and outside scouting resources that I wouldn’t be shocked if there are teams that actually don’t do any scouting at all themselves unless they have a top 10 pick. I don’t think that’s the Rockets but in the Stone/Fertitta era you could have fooled me if you told me they were one of those teams based on what i noted in the surprised reaction they seem to have to the player they get when they actually play for them.
