Yeah actually you bring up a good point, I guess to me it was just the amount of easy shots that Malone got from Stockton but I guess it did go vice versa. He may have been simple, made the right pass, but he was a great shooter and I honestly don't see any more point guards like him out there anymore. To address Payton I've just never cared for his game but I might give Thomas the edge over Stockton.
LOL. You gave all the right reasons and you still don't get why people think Stockton was great? If you think "make the pass" is easy, try do it yourself in an NBA game. Stockton and Magic Johnson are the ONLY players in NBA history that have double digit assists average FOR THE WHOLE CAREER. There are only 6 players with career assist average better than 9. They are Oscar, Kidd, Isiah and KJ. These are all legendary PGs in NBA history. Isiah, no. Payton, yes. Stockton was not just a great passer. He was also a deadeye shooter. You leave him open, he nails the open shot. He's not athletic. But he sees a seam, he penetrates to the hoop. You close the seam, he dishes it to the right man. That's what made him so difficult to defend.
It depends on if Karl Malone comes with Stockon. Would Stockton be the all time assist leader if he didn't play with Karl for his entire career?
Stockton made passes, Magic made plays, there's a huge difference. Oscar, Kidd, Isiah and KJ all made plays, Stockton made the pass, the most in history, which is obviously impressive, but not as impressive as it would have been had he been the playmaker on most of those assists.
Were you watching the rocket in 97 playoffs? He scored like 11 pts in the last two minutes to clinch that game 6. I hate Stockton more than anybody else, but you got to give him credit when credit is due.
That's fine, but that made him top 10? 2 top 10 players in the league on the same team produced ZERO championships according to some on here.
For the majority of his assists all he did was pass it, get his man picked, make a decision, pass it to Malone and he'd hit a jump shot. Impressive only because he was a great decision maker and passer, but I aint putting him up there with Magic, the big O, Isiah, or even Payton and Kidd.
But the rest of that Jazz team is MAJOR garbage, and they ran into Dream at his best and then the bulls team with MJ + REF.
When the Jazz play in the late 80's and early 90's, Stockton threw the entry pass to low post which resulted in a layup plus one for Malone better than anyone else in the history. Matter of fact, Magic himself said that Stockton is the best at angelling a pass. It's only in the later stage of his career, that Mr elbow stopped going to low post, and thus P&R was used more. As you said, assists number doesn't tell the whole story. The thing about Stockton is that he is a better decision maker than anybody you mentioned, Magic included. Stockton knows how to control tempo of a game, when to slow it down, and when to push it up. Those thing won't show in any stats, but it's as important as anything in deciding a basketball game. Magic choked in the playoffs many times (most famous in 84), Isiah had the pass in 87, and a very low percentage shooter . Well, I consider Isiah is the first of that generation of shooting first point guard. Last point, Stockton is arguably the dirtiest player that never being caught in history of the game. I can't remember he's ever been penalized, neither a T nor a flagrant foul, not to mention never being suspended. That's bad for us real fans, but probably good for his team.
He was a great passer no doubt about that... No they don't show up on stats, but in the end both Magic and Isiah won rings and Stockton and his better decisions didn't. BINGO! That's probably why I don't like the guy...
History is fact. Nothing that we've been discussing is a fact. Besides there are a lot of myths in the NBA that are worth discussing.
Say what you will about Stockton, but he is the NBA's All-Time leader in TWO major statistical categories: Assists and Steals... For a PG, I think those are probably the defining offensive (Assists) and defensive (Steals) of the position, and he was better at each for longer than anyone in the history of the game, as the records show. IMO, there are five major cumulative statistics in basketball: Points Rebounds Assists Blocks Steals To say that someone who owns 2/5 of the pinnacle statistical records in his sport is overrated makes me wonder what such proposterous statements would look like when applied to other sports. What about Football? Top 5 Stats: Passing Yards - Dan Marino Rushing Yards - Emmitt Smith Receptions or Recieving Yards - Jerry Rice Passing Touchdowns - Marino Total Touchdowns - Rice Or How about baseball? Home Runs - Hank Aaron Runs or RBI - Hank Aaron Hits - Pete Rose Wins - Cy Young Strikeouts - Nolan Ryan You may disagree with the stats I have deemed the top 5, but that is basically irrelevant...make your own list and you'll see the same results...statistical dominance like Stockton accomplished over his career is a common trait among All-Time Greats, not overrated chumps. Now Jumpman, do you honestly think someone in the company of All-Time greats like Dan Marino, Jerry Rice and Hank Aaron in the arena of statistical achievement in their respective sports is overrated? While he may not be a Rice or Aaron, Stockton is undeniably "up there with Magic, the big O, Isiah, or even Payton and Kidd."
A LOT of those records are due to logevity... All time great QBs where does Marino rank? After, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre? All championship winning QBs, unlike Marino. Why do Cowboy fans have trouble convincing people that Smith is greater than Brown, Payton, and Sanders? He does have the rushing record AND rings. Jerry Rice is the greatest... Baseball is different, individual numbers mean more in baseball, in basketball they don't mean as much if you don't have rings. And even in baseball rings mean something, when Bonds breaks Ruth record will he be considered better than Ruth? I doubt it. If he's rated ahead of Magic, Isiah, and Oscar Robertson he is overrated. If he's rated as a top 10 player he is overrated. I never said he was a chump either, he was one of the greatest decision makers and passers of all time, but he never won a ring despite playing with one of the greatest forwards for almost 2 decades. I don't see anything wrong with grouping him with Payton and Kidd, two more PGs that didn't/haven't won rings but have great numbers.
No one here said he was top 10 all time. But I think that he was a top ten player, in his prime, in the league. In the late dream team era, after Isiah and Magic retired, Stockton was the best. Of course, I'm talking about the Stockton from the late 80s, early 90s, who put up around 17ppg and 14apg (at a 50% shooting clip, no less).
Wrong, Stockton passed Magic in assists in fewer games despite played limited minutes in his first 3 seasons. He blew passed Mo Cheek in steals almost 10 years ago (can't remember the exact time, but it's long long time ago). As for top 10 all time. He's not.
