Well, I would argue that those teams either fired their GMs or should've fired their GMs. So if we're debating about whether Stone should be fired, he needs to at least clear that benchmark. Most certainly needs to do so in the next 2 years at latest. But for now still in a wait and see mode.
Which GM completed a rebuild cycle in just 3 yrs though? I know OKC with KD and that's it. It's Def not as easy as people here are saying.
You're right. My opinion is you should find another team or be grateful of the solid young players Stone's brought here
Who he drafted wasn't the issue, it was the fact he put himself in the position to be drafting late in the draft and taking swings at guys who looked more like role players than potential stars. You don't go for role players in a rebuild, you go for core players. @Clutch has said this many times. Stone's mistake was maneuvering himself into that position.
Grizzlies did it (Ja/Jaren Jackson), Cavs (Garland/Mobley), Hawks (Trae Young), the Nets got back into the playoffs after 3 years without even their own pick, Sixers super-tank lasted 4 years before becoming a 50 win team. All these happened just a few years back. I mean you gotta not aim above Orlando/Charlotte level if you believe your GM is good.
I think that is the only sequence of moves that we didn't see coming, and it still doesnt make much sense why 19 teams passed on him. The other positive moves I think were all mentioned by fans, or were obvious moves to make. If it works out , it may be more luck than Stone's ability.
Just cuz it's moves the fans see doesn't mean Stone doesn't take credit for those, because he could just have easily went in another direction. Whether the right move is obvious or not he should still take credit for it. Like Jabari, he was practically consensus 3rd pick but I know some posters here wanted Murray or Ivey. If they were the GM that's who we would have picked.
Huh? Grizz Grit and Grind era ended in 2017 which is when they started tanking. Cavs wtf. You know their team is composed of top lotto picks and they have the most busts in nba history right? They been rebuilding since Lebron left but they only started when they got Garland? So let's just forget all those years they were picking guys like Isaac Okoro, Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett no they only started when they drafted Mobley? Hawks were last relevant when they had Dwight Howard and he got traded in 2017 which is when they started rebuilding. Nets have never blown it all up and started rebuilding they're like the Lakers they need to make the playoffs every year. Plus their GM always gives their future away for aging players so really they have 0 incentive to tank cuz they never have their picks. I mean if you're gonna cherry pick the rebuilding time to when they got a superstar and start from there we can wait and see who if any among our guys become all stars and call it the year 0. If Amen and Cam are the stars of this team we can say Stone rebuilt in 0 yrs.
Fire Stone https://www.youtube.com/live/o7KpzkSSD5Y?feature=share Fell for the Banana-in-the-Tail-Pipe trick
So every time we lose a game next year we are asking Stone to be FIRED? So, when we win…who gets the credit?
Blows me away this conversation can occur without some sort of evidence of either progress or stagnation with the changes this season. New staff, coach, pulled trigger on various max/near max players and more. None of you know if it will gel or not, yet screaming to fire. As many here know I'm not at all a fan of tanking strategies but my god now that we have a totally rebuilt team let's see what we have before demanding changes.
Spoiler Each transaction is still categorized in baseball terms based on the original formula (for the most part): HR: Bona fide All-Stars 3B: Top-flight performers 2B: Front-end rotation players 1B: Other noteworthy contributors BB: Lateral and inconclusive moves K: Diminished returns We then calculated every executive's on-base and slugging percentages, combining them to determine their OPS within each category and overall. They are by overall OPS, excepting executives who assumed decision-making duties in the past year: Denver Nuggets general manager Calvin Booth, Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin, Atlanta Hawks GM Landry Fields, Washington Wizards team president Michael Winger and Golden State Warriors GM Mike Dunleavy Jr. The sample sizes for them are simply too small. (Note: Transactions after the 2023 trade deadline are too recent to rate, so Wright is not yet credited for drafting Victor Wembanyama with the No. 1 overall draft pick this year, a meatball over the middle of the plate.) Not all home runs are created equal. Tim Connelly's second-round selection of Nikola Jokić in 2014 is the equivalent of a 550-foot walk-off grand slam. Kevin Durant was served on a platter to Sam Presti as a No. 2 overall pick in 2007. Both count the same in OPS, which in the long run should prevent any one transaction from defining an executive's career. Same goes for strikeouts. Connelly's acquisition of Rudy Gobert was like a strikeout looking with a wild-card berth hanging in the balance. Presti's inconsequential eight-player trade that resulted in a net loss of two future second-round picks also goes into the books as a strikeout. It should all come out in the wash. The mean overall OPS is 1.430. Only nine of the 25 executives we rated fell below that rating, and all but one of them (Mitch Kupchak) has fewer than eight years on the job, which tracks with the notion the league has made significant strides in its practice of hiring decision-makers. It is a good sign that the mean OPS for trades (1.480) is higher than that of draft picks (1.389), since the latter is a more difficult process. Likewise, the lower mean OPS for free-agent signings (1.283) is reflective of the idea that it is increasingly harder for decision-makers to sign impactful players into salary-cap space. We also weeded out a ton of transactions to streamline the system. Most swaps of second-round picks and salary dumps that do not cost teams anything of significance are eliminated. A series of trades that is tied together is generally combined into one transaction. Executives are not credited with strikeouts for whiffing on late second-round picks, but they can benefit from reaching base with any of them (i.e., Philadelphia 76ers reserve Paul Reed, the 58th overall pick in 2020). Likewise for veteran minimum free-agent signings. A few more items of interest before revealing the rankings: •Context matters. Ainge's decision to trade the No. 1 overall pick for No. 3 and a lightly protected future first-rounder goes down as a triple, not a home run, even though it landed him Jayson Tatum. It was a home run draft pick, but the trade netted Romeo Langford. Ainge is rewarded for the process, but the result could have been better if the additional asset were not a late lottery pick in a top-heavy draft. •All outgoing transactions are italicized. •Trades are evaluated in their entirety but listed only by the most meaningful aspects of the deal in the interest of clarity. In some cases, trades are defined by the outgoing assets (and therefore italicized). •Transactions made in haste are handicapped. The Los Angeles Clippers' selection of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander would have been a home run if Lawrence Frank had not miscalculated his value after a year. Jon Horst signed Christian Wood to the Milwaukee Bucks in 2018, only to waive him six months later. •Sign-and-trade transactions are listed as free-agent signings and eliminated from trade evaluations, except in instances when the cost is notably cumbersome. For example, if Elton Brand still called the shots in Philadelphia, he would be issued a strikeout for facilitating Butler's move to the Miami Heat. •There are a ton of ancillary conclusions we can draw from these rankings. Why would the Charlotte Hornets leave Kupchak in charge of making this year's No. 2 overall pick? How is it that not one woman has been given the chance to lead an NBA front office? Isn't it strange how Riley can simultaneously be so effective at signing undrafted free agents and so ineffective at drafting late in the first round? This exercise is meant more for critical analysis of executives' records than gut reaction to their rankings. •This is a massive undertaking. We have essentially evaluated every transaction made by a current executive, combing through each decision-maker's record multiple times. Basketball Reference and Spotrac were invaluable in the process of analyzing transactions and contract details, respectively. •This is a work in progress. Rafael Stone's No. 2 overall selection of Jalen Green in 2020 could stretch a double into a triple by the end of this season. If you think a transaction is improperly scored, I want to hear about it, especially if you think we misjudged how one poor move made a better one possible. Top 5 executives: Draft picks (Minimum five transactions) 1. Tim Connelly, Denver Nuggets (2013-22) • Minnesota Timberwolves (2022-) 2. Zach Kleiman, Memphis Grizzlies (2019-) 3. Masai Ujiri, Denver Nuggets (2010-13) • Toronto Raptors (2013-) 4. Rafael Stone, Houston Rockets (2020-) 5. Sam Presti, Oklahoma City Thunder (2007-) Top 5 executives: Trades (Minimum five transactions) 1. Danny Ainge, Boston Celtics (2003-2021) • Utah Jazz (2021-) 2. Kevin Pritchard, Portland Trail Blazers (2007-10) • Indiana Pacers (2017-) 3. Masai Ujiri, Denver Nuggets (2010-13) • Toronto Raptors (2013-) 4. Pat Riley, Miami Heat (1995-) 5. Jon Horst, Milwaukee Bucks (2017-) Top 5 executives: Free-agent signings (Minimum five transactions) 1. James Jones, Phoenix Suns (2018 -) 2. Rob Pelinka, Los Angeles Lakers (2019-) 3. Kevin Pritchard, Portland Trail Blazers (2007-10) • Indiana Pacers (2017-) 4. Pat Riley, Miami Heat (1995-) 5. Daryl Morey, Houston Rockets (2007-20) • Philadelphia 76ers (2020-)
25. Nico Harrison, Dallas Mavericks 24. Mitch Kupchak, Charlotte Hornets (/LA Lakers) 23. Artūras Karnišovas, Chicago Bulls 22. Leon Rose, New York Knicks 21. Jeff Weltman, Orlando Magic 20. Sean Marks, Brooklyn Nets 19. Jon Horst, Milwaukee Bucks 18. Rafael Stone, Houston Rockets Draft picks (BA: .714 • SLG: 1.000 • OPS: 1.714) 2B: Jalen Green (2nd, 2020) • Alperen Şengün (16th, 2021) • Jabari Smith (3rd, 2022) 1B: Kenyon Martin Jr. (52nd, 2020) • Tari Eason (17th, 2022) K: Usman Garuba (23rd, 2021) • Josh Christopher (24th, 2021) Trades (BA: .636 • SLG: .636 • OPS: 1.272) 1B: Christian Wood [2020] • Russell Westbrook [2020] • Kevin Porter Jr. [2021] • P.J. Tucker [2021] • 2026 R2, 2026 R2 [2022] • Eric Gordon [2023] • 2024 R2, 2025 R2 [2023] K: James Harden [2021] • Victor Oladipo [2021] • Daniel Theis [2021] • Christian Wood [2022] Free agents (OBP: .333 • SLG: .667 • OPS: 1.000) 2B: Jae'Sean Tate (2020) K: David Nwaba (2021) • Bruno Fernando (2022) TOTALS ... OBP: .619 • SLG: .762 • OPS: 1.381 17. Lawrence Frank, LA Clippers 16. Monte McNair, Sacramento Kings 15. Rob Pelinka, Los Angeles Lakers T-13. Tim Connelly, Minnesota Timberwolves (/Denver Nuggets) T-13. Daryl Morey, Philadelphia 76ers (/Houston Rockets) Draft picks (BA: .650 • SLG: 1.000 • OPS: 1.650) 3B: Clint Capela (25th, 2014) • Tyrese Maxey (21st, 2020) 2B: Aaron Brooks (26th, 2007) • Chandler Parsons (38th, 2011) • Montrezl Harrell (32nd, 2015) 1B: Chase Budinger (44th, 2009) • Patrick Patterson (14th, 2010) • Marcus Morris (14th, 2011) • Donatas Motiejunas (20th, 2011) • Terrence Jones (18th, 2012) • Jeremy Lamb (12th, 2012) • Isaiah Hartenstein (43rd, 2017) • Paul Reed (58th, 2020) K: Jermaine Taylor (32nd, 2009) • Sergio Llull (34th, 2009) • Royce White (16th, 2012) • Isaiah Canaan (34th, 2013) • Sam Dekker (18th, 2015) • Chinanu Onuaku (37th, 2016) • Jaden Springer (28th, 2021) Trades (BA: .441 • SLG: .824 • OPS: 1.265) HR: James Harden [2012] • Chris Paul [2017] 3B: Kyle Lowry [2009] 2B: Luis Scola [2007] • Kevin Martin [2010] • Goran Dragic [2011] • Trevor Ariza [2014] • Seth Curry [2020] 1B: Carl Landry [2007] • Metta World Peace [2008] • Courtney Lee [2010] • Derek Fisher [2012] • 2015 R2 (Richaun Holmes), 2017 R2 (Dillon Brooks) [2013] • Corey Brewer [2014] • Lou Williams [2017] K: 2008 R1 (Nicolas Batum) [2008] • Steve Francis • Terrence Williams [2010] • Shane Battier, Ish Smith [2011] • Marcus Camby [2012] • Kyle Lowry [2012] • Patrick Patterson [2013] • Marcus Morris [2013] • 2015 R1 (Larry Nance Jr.) [2014] • 2015 R2 (Richaun Holmes) [2015] • Ty Lawson [2015] • 2017 R2 (Dillon Brooks) [2017] • De'Anthony Melton [2018] • Iman Shumpert [2019] • Russell Westbrook [2019] • Robert Covington [2020] • Al Horford [2020] • George Hill [2021] • James Harden [2022] Free agents (BA: .654 • SLG: .960 • OPS: 1.614) HR: Dwight Howard (2013) 3B: Eric Gordon (2016) 2B: Trevor Ariza (2009) • Patrick Beverley (2012) • PJ Tucker (2017) 1B: Jeremy Lin (2012) • Omer Asik (2012) • Omri Casspi (2013) • Josh Smith (2014) • Ryan Anderson (2016) • Nene (2016) • Luc Mbah a Moute (2017) • Gerald Green (2017) • Danuel House (2018) • Austin Rivers (2018) • Andre Drummond (2021) BB: Georges Niang (2021) K: Steve Francis (2007) • Brent Barry (2008) • David Anderson (2009) • Brad Miller (2010) • Samuel Dalembert (2011) • Carlos Delfino (2012) • Tarik Black (2017) • Danuel House (2022) • P.J. Tucker (2022) TOTALS ... BA: .563 • SLG: .911 • OPS: 1.474 12. Sam Presti, Oklahoma City Thunder 11. David Griffin, New Orleans Pelicans (/Cleveland Cavaliers) 10. Zach Kleiman, Memphis Grizzlies 9. Brad Stevens, Boston Celtics 8. Koby Altman, Cleveland Cavaliers 7. Troy Weaver, Detroit Pistons 6. Pat Riley, Miami Heat 5. Kevin Pritchard, Indiana Pacers (/Portland Trail Blazers) 4. James Jones, Phoenix Suns 3. Brian Wright, San Antonio Spurs 2. Masai Ujiri, Toronto Raptors (/Denver Nuggets) 1. Danny Ainge, Utah Jazz (/Boston Celtics)
