if you were refering to my post, I never mentioned the Rocket Guy, or speculated as to whom he pepresents...Nor did I take the postion that only Houston fans are denegrating this discussion...If you look back up this thread, you will see statements like " Toronto sucks", and the like...including one person who states that he had nothing against Toronto UNTIL THE SNIPER ARTICLE..you will also see Flutie reveling in the offensive natureof the sniper article, upon the basis that he hopes Houston fans now know how Toronto fans feel..My complaint makes no distinction about the geographic origins of these type of comments...I am surprised that,despite my continual assurance thatI have no opinion about which city is 'better', there seems to be an assumption that I am taking the Toronto "side"..(ref. Haven)..My entire point is that "sides" on this issue are the problem... ------------------
Yea, I've been to Toronto, and it sucks! Wait. I was in Toronto when I was 12, and I couldn't do anything but stay inside watching TV with strangers. So I apologize for such an ignorant statement. I figured this post was just fun jabbing back and forth, but I guess not. That's why I added the 'Go Raptors' comment. I've lived in Chicago, Miami, and San Jose. I just moved to Houston 5 years ago. This is the first time on my own, and the first time I appreciate my town. I love Houston. I love the people. I love the Rockets. I love the Astros. I'm even a Texans season ticket holder. I travel a lot, and everywhere I go, Houston gets no love. We're the 4th largest city!! What's up!?!? We have so much to offer, talk about a melting pot. But I digress. My point is, unless you're a troubled teenage looking to get as far away from your parents as possible, your home town is...well, your home town. It's your turf. It's your pride. There's a lot of love for your home town. So of course when someone from another city attacks anything about Houston, we're going to get defensive. One thing that I've learned about Texans, particularly Houstonians, is that we are some proud people. Not saying other city dwellers aren't. But, that's part of why I love my town, Houston, TX so damn much. I just don't think we should bash the city of Toronto, because some wannabe journalist is bitter for whatever reason. Perhaps all the negative press about Toronto, or seeing Franchise in Houston instead of Canada (yes I know it was Vancouver), etc., clouded his mind long enough to call Houston a hick town. No, I don't think he was referring to market size. There's no way to determine if one city is better than another. It's impossible. It's ridiculous to even try. What criteria do you use? Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Also, how can you say one basketball team is better than another? Comparing final record? Depth of playoff run? I don't think so. The better team is the one who wins the most games while playing against each other. Although we agree the East is weak, we can't use that observation to determine the Rockets are a better team than the Raptors. how did our Rockets fare against the Raptors? Whatever excuse comes up for us sweeping them, let's see this coming year. Well, thanks for reading. Let the Rockets and Raptors decide who is better!! ------------------ There goes the challenger being chased by the blue blue meanies on wheels. The vicious traffic squad cars are after our lone driver .. the last american hero .. the-the electric sintar .. the demi-god .. the super driver of the golden west! two nasty cars are close behind .. the beautiful lone driver .. the police cars are getting closer, closer... closer to our soul hero in his soul mobile .. yeah baby! they're about to strike, they gonna get him, smash!, rape! the last beautiful free soul on this planet but... it's written if the evil spirit arms the tiger with claws brahman provided wings for the dove thus spake the super guru
Flutie- Don't attribute something written at ROCKETGUY.com to bskball.com... If ESPN writes something thats erroneous is that Clutch's fault??? Get a clue man... As for Sniper and his "errors" I caught the Indiana as a city thing, and I knew the Hakeem and 40 minutes comment wasn't accurate--- maybe I should have fixed those for him, so we'd stay a little more on target, but those errors were almost as bad as Bill's.... You guys need to keep in mind that the writers on site are not beat writers, they are columnists, I ask them to make statements, and a great many of you "on the soapbox" might not be entirely accurate with your numbers, and might mispeak something. I don't think that makes, bskball.com desperate for writers.... what I would say is we give a lot of people a voice... and in this case, its been a pretty loud voice... I think Sniper has a great many things coming, but TRG, has made some erroneoud conclusions of his own, and this is just the 1st part of what looks to be a heated exchange... and as quiet as things are right now... I am all for something that makes me pick my side of the fence. Thats what my column are about, picking a side... I don;t want impartial people saying politically correct things, I want guys that get you angry, and get you saying "yeah...that right".... I want two guys on each side of the fence throwing rocks at each other. After all, we are all friends over here, dispite what might be said... We just have differing opinions. BskBALL ------------------
And the Sonics swept the Lakers last year. LET'S LET THEM DECIDE WHO'S BETTER! LOL btw- He said it was a hicktown COMPARED TO Toronto. He didn't say Houston was a hicktown. It was a bad choice of words, I'll admit that. ------------------
JAG, I didn't get that from you, but I got the feeling that Sniper thinks that TRG speaks for all Rockets fans everywhere as well as Rockets management. ------------------
While I sympathize with your position, given your motivation, but I think there is a distinction between being politically incorrect and ignorant. I am not using ignorant in the derogatory sense, but in the literal sense. What justification, or indeed need, is there for calling houston a hick town? That's not throwing rocks, that's throwing mud, and it's beyond the point. I am from Toronto, and I appreciate the city,but someone's credibility as a 'columnist' is jeapordized when subjective, irrelevant comments like that are made without even an attempt at presenting rationale. If that IS the point, if, as you claim, 'getiing you angry'is what you want, than you've lost me...I like a little substance with my debates, and if being controversial is the substance, I'll pass...Never liked Madonna's 'music' either, similar reasons... I am not challenging everything Sniper said, far from it, but as a 'columnist' he has to be able to have his work taken both comprehensively and severally, and the 'hick' comment is as germaine as those idiots from Orlando talking about igloos and whale blubber... I am not asking for safe, PC articles that no one will read, but an argument without something to support it is just noise, and if I want to listen to noise that will agitate me, I'll just watch jerry Springer... ------------------
After starting a sentence with a lower case letter, referring to Indiana as a city, and Houstonians "HICKS" this author misspells "whether". Yes suh, we shore are dum hare down Souf. Am I supposed to take this article seriously or humorously? ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited July 26, 2001).]
BSKBALL: That post on the Rocket guy's site WAS ON YOUR SITE AS WELL for the greater part of a day. IT WAS THERE!!! Let me repeat: <font size=+2>IT WAS IN YOUR RUMOR SECTION AS WELL AS ON TRG'S SITE!!!!</font> It's obviously been removed since that time perhaps by TRG after realizing it was a complete fabrication. I gain NOTHING from lying about this. ------------------
If this whole article was basically a rebuttal to ignorant statements made by TRG, then it shouldn't refer to the fans of Houston or Houston as a city and instead just stick with TRG. ------------------ So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again. The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, Shorter of breath and one day closer to death. [This message has been edited by Pete Rose Mobster (edited July 26, 2001).]
BSKBALL: WHAT PART OF MY POST DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND? The part in question that TRG put on HIS SITE also found it's way to YOUR SITE. See, I'm distinguishing between the 2 sites. You obviously didn't see this before. Someone posted that July 18th update(on TRG's site) on your site as well and it has since been removed. It was on the RUMORS page of YOUR(NOT TRG'S) website. How about learning how to read before you tell me to get a clue? ------------------
FLUTIE- No, it wasn't... ... Nothing printed in the rumor mill is removed from the site, the last 3 days stay in the Rumor Mill, the previous days are in the archive, I do not delete anything I have posted. Your misled.... Historically, you've never gone back on your position, so I don't expect for you to admit you made a mistake on this one. So please get mad and say some more things you can not produce. JAG- I am not sure what to make of your "with your position, given your motivation" comment. The two columnists in question have both chosen bad positions... Bill with his "usual" flair,and Sniper with his tendancy to gun people down first and ask questions later... This does not make either party any less entertaining. It also does not deminish the statement either are making. Both are founded in pride more than reality, and I apprecitate that. DO NOT EVER EXPECT PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISM FROM THE TEAM REPORTS... I don't hire these guys, they work totally for free, so I don't have huge demands of them but to present the things they feel are relevant to the fan base. I try and make sure they don;t kill themsleves totally, but if they have a message, I tend to let them say what they feel. I HANDLE THE NEWS... when there are issues with the news, those are MY issues, the columnists fall in behind me. The Columns are for fun. And Bill and Sniper are having fun, and its been a topic here for the better part of the day. The jist of both sides has been said, and from here the details come out. I'll bet you tomorrow everyone in Toronto knows Hakeem played 26 minutes game not 40.... How many people knew that before today? ------------------
I like what the Raptors have done getting veterans along with their superstar Carter,I was happy to see them beat the Knicks,but Houston is the 4th largest city in the US.It is not some HICK town. Both of these teams have played some close games.I'm not saying the Rockets are a better team because the Raptors have resigned their own free agents and we haven't done so yet.If Hakeem signs with the Raptors they will be a better team than they are right now,but they are certainly beatable if we sign Taylor,Anderson,and Norris. ------------------
I got to say....i went to Vancouver and it is one of the best cities i have ever seen...Toronto i don't know about....it's nicer than most cities but missing an identity...Houston looks no good at all compared to those two cities ....it flat and plain...but the diff. is the people...canada is full of fake wanna be americans... while the americans are the real thing...i'd rather choose personality than good look'in ........though you CUNUCKS have nice fine look'in 'birds'(if you know what i mean) ------------------ <<..........>>
Man, read this.....it has some good info. But notice what the "Sniper" says about the RocketGuy starting in the third paragraph. YIKES! This sentence is particularly funny, in light of what the games Dream has been playing... "Wake up Houston! This is 2001 and salary has a lot more to do with the intangibles and off court activities than ever before, particularly with the youth wave." Anyway, here's the article in its entirety. http://www.bskball.com/coach7.htm The Raptors Report By The Sniper 07/26/01 YOU SNEAKY SON OF A ... Seems somebody took care of business this off season. No, I'm not talking about the Sacramento Kings who, despite many rumors to the contrary, managed to bring back Webber (even though the odds were ALWAYS in their favor). I'm not talking about Chicago either, who managed to improve their team marginally (a great feat considering the invisible quarantine sign hanging on the United Center door) only to have their up and coming guard Jamaal Crawford pull a Speedy Claxton. And you KNOW I ain't talking about the Denver Nuggets (Avery Johnson?) I am, of course, talking about Glen Grunwald. As his legend as the Raptor's politely effective Gm grows, so too, it seems, does his ability to pull tricks out from his sleeve over and over and... OH, CANADA! He pulled off the trifecta, resigning his three top players in Antonio Davis, Alvin Williams and Jerome Williams. Thought he couldn't when he could? When he DID? While this may seem like old news, the media in Toronto isn't so forgiving. Antonio Davis looked like a man that had just been shot at his news conference announcing his re-signing with the team. Toronto writers attacked. Was Toronto really your third option? Did Chicago really screw you? Why do you look like you are constipated? While these were all worthy questions considering that Davis clearly had a preference for the sunny state of Florida, not one member of the assembly welcomed him back. Not in those words anyway. With Alvin and Jerome happy to return, Davis seemed stoic, almost unswayed by the 60 million + that he will collect over the next five seasons. My take here is, so what? If you were offered a humongous raise that would set you up for life to move to say... Germany for a few years wouldn't you take it? Would you like it? Who knows, but would it matter? Not to most of us and don't think Antonio is that much different. Forget the wise cracks about Canada being out there, as my fellow scribes do and continue to fuel a useless and totally unfounded myth. the fact of the matter is, cities like Indiana, Houston, Orlando, Detroit and Portland are HICK towns compared to Toronto. Remember that there are 25 smaller markets in the league than the T-dot. The weather doesn't take a nose dive as soon as you hit the border and believe me; you think Toronto winters are bad? You ever spend a winter in Buffalo or New York? Their airports shut down on the REGULAR. Same with Chi-town's crazy winters and rainy weather. Aren't these two world renown basketball hot spots? New York the MECCA? Bad weather, crazy traffic and yet they are perhaps the least likely team in the entire league to relocate or fold. Our Houston writer at BskBALL questions weather or not we have T.V. 'up there'. I KNOW Americans aren't that ignorant, so when the biased and soul hungry scribes and media stop feeding the rest of their country untested 'facts' and half-truths the people will be able to taste perhaps the biggest multicultural and economic centers in the world. Do you notice that baseball and hockey don't even bring up issues like that. Either do the football players. Of all these athletes about 80%-85% are American. Why then is basketball so primitive in their thinking? That is like Canadians assuming that every American is a serial killing, beer drinking, pizza eating, skin headed FREAK. We don't assume, so either should anybody else. Ask foreign players like Hakeem Olajuwon, Toni Kukoc and Luc Longley if they make a big deal about where they play. They are happy to be making millions of dollars and playing in the NBA. Ask the stars who came up the hard way through the old CBA. Chris Childs, Adrian Griffin, Raja Bell, etc. etc. These peeps are grateful to be playing in the greatest league in the world. They don't b**** because they came from nothing. It's all good. the one's who complain are young (ala McGrady) or spoiled. Doug Christie complained that the food tasted a 'little different'. No kidding Doug, it's Canada not America for Christ's sake, man! Go play in the WNBA. Men don't cry, men sweat. The bottom line in sports is that MONEY TALKS, bull**** rides the B train and home is where the checks are cut. Davis more than proved that. So too will Vince Carter. He has been the subject of much rumor, the biggest of which has him bolting to American soil at the first chance. While it is natural for a player to want to be home (If I was a baller I'd DEMAND a trade to Toronto) it isn't the only factor. So wave a hand through the smokescreen that is Tabloid at its best. Truth is, Toronto ain't much different than where most American lie their heads. In most cases, it's probably just a lot bigger. THE LONGEST DREAM Reports vary on the length of the contract Toronto had offered Hakeem to become a Raptor but nevertheless, T.O. has made their pitch. It is between a two year deal worth just under 10 mill or a four year deal worth around 17 mill. Indiana has joined the race as has Cleveland and Miami. Cleveland has the most to spend but the least chance of retaining the future Hall of Famer. Miami would use him strictly as back up leaving the Pacers and Raptors as front running teams who could offer a starting role. Look, nobody want him to play 40 minutes a night. That is what got him injured last season. Don' they get Knicks' games down south. Did they not learn anything from New York trying to play a 36 year old Ewing like he was still 30? The Dream is now a 25 minute man and combined with a power forward that was an all-star as a CENTER, Olajuwon would be a perfect fit on the Raps. Antonio could move to the five to cover him when he rests (little less than half a regular season game) and with a litany of big men like Keon Clark, Eric Montross, JYD and rookie Michael Bradley the Raptors front court would be the deepest in the league (not counting Michael Stewart and Brian Skinner-don't SLEEP on Skinner!) Hakeem is still a top five center and in paying a player of that caliber, you also consider the image he brings to your squad, the respectability and the experience. Business opportunities in Toronto are rivaled only by New York, L.A. and Chicago. No sports city even comes close. Wake up Houston! This is 2001 and salary has a lot more to do with the intangibles and off court activities than ever before, particularly with the youth wave. And what was Houston writer Bill "the Rocket Guy"s solution for a departed Olajuwon? Start Kelvin Cato... er... laugh with me people. Of course, Houston holds the cards and Hakeem finishing out his career outside of H-town would leave a bad feeling in a lot of mouths, even, admittedly, my own. I expect them to retain Hakeem in some capacity but if they do not the Dream will be in Pacer gold or Raptor purple. The Rocket Guy seems intent on ending the Dream but as most night fantasies, it's hard to remember what you dreamt about after you wake up. Perhaps Houston has become too accustomed to being in the presence of greatness and honor. Rocket guy says "Toronto can have him". Here's hoping the Rocket's brass feels the same way. Here's hoping the Dream ends HERE. Your Friendly Neighborhood, Sniper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Raptors Report By ------------------ My doctor says I am bipolar. I am going to get a second opinion. I have never had intimate desires for polar bears.
can somebody please explain whats up with all this rumor in bskball & rockhead and sniper's article? i'm a rockets fan but i love alot of other teams including the raptors. i really believed they were gonna beat the knicks even without the camby incident. listening to all this rocks/raptors suck, rocks swept, raptors went to p/offs, is really embarassing, i thought the bbs was supposed to be the best fan forum on the net. but maybe its just bcos i'm not american or canadian. j/k. ------------------
"canada is full of fake wanna be americans... while the americans are the real thing...i'd rather choose personality than good look'in" What? you must be kidding right? oh and really nice save complimenting the 'birds'. ------------------
Staged a mutiny? We swept your asses. And you saw how poorly Camby played. Believe me, next year we will get farther in the playoffs than your team. ------------------ ZeColmeia on stealing: "I did not steal anything. Ive used some of clutchcity player profiles when I first created the draft profile page."
NYK: Nothing you say means anything to me anymore. BSKBALL: Quit denying it, man. It was there. Lemme tell you, I have EVERYTHING to gain by lying about this. LOL Hell, you probably removed it yourself when you saw it was complete BS. ------------------
