KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

Would like to see Cam Whitty at the SG and SF as well.

Amen could be a playmaking SG and SF as well just in name. Myriad options.

You could essentially move Brooks to play small ball PF or C in limited minutes.

 

No we don't - we simply move one of them - and if JG gets a better return, he is the one we move....this is a business - if you have 2 like players, and they both are starter level, you generally will move one.

That could be KPJ, it could be Green......it will depend.

Right now, KPJ is better than Green, but Green is 18 months younger - and they are not much different in performance overall - KPJ has more skills JG is a better athlete....let the best man win.

DD

 

I think we just disagree here. I'm looking for players that clear a certain bar and KPJ does not clear that bar. He's a middling player. He's not a bum, he shouldn't be out of the league and in China like some have said, but he isn't great. I really hope the same isn't true for JG, that's not what you want from a lotto pick. We really need JG to take a leap this year. I agree with you that KPJ is better than Green right now (or more specifically last year) and I really hope Jalen leapfrogs him this year in a big way.

 

Being "worse" is rather a matter of fact statement that is subjective. I don't think 2% difference in ts% really automatically makes someone better especially when the guy with the slightly worse efficiency does it on higher volume.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/4865/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/4601/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

Green has more positive impact when on the court than KPJ for example.

 

Well if that happens it makes the answer easier.......I just think they will both keep improving at around the same rate, and KPJ will always have better handles, be left handed, a better shooter and passer, and defender - but that doesn't mean it is true.....just gotta see.

Right now, KPJ is better on both ends, and has been playing out of place whereas Green has been catered to his skillset and still isn't as good - now that the playing field is leveled, let's see who is better, and move the other one....as Rox fans that is all we can ask for.

Let the better man win.

DD

 

The handle difference especially by the end of this past season is rather small between the two. Green in fact is a more efficient player specifically on duties designated for primary ball handlers like ppp for pnr plays. Like Green even does it on higher volume. He has more one primarily ball handler possessions per game than KPJ and has a higher point per possession also.

KPJ has more assists but also more turnovers.

 

I know you have your set development curves by year, but they can’t be so rigid. KPJ’s first 1.5 yrs were lost time, basically…
If we’re talking "hope", right, you can’t say ‘there is hope for JG and no hope for KPJ"
I personally think both of them are long shots for superstar status, but if we are talking hope, there is still hope for either of them…

 

Yeah of course it's subjective. I think KPJ is (in 2022-23) better on both ends. I know you have stats that support your opinion and I have mine. We don't need to get into it, I don't think that would be productive. Don't think either of us is going to change our minds. FWIW I think Jalen has like 10x higher upside.

 

We know your very negative opinions on Green. They aren't not normal opinions.

 

I agree the chances of superstar status are pretty slim for both, IMHO. But Green not having a left hand, no hesitation move or dribble, and his pretty poor defense, he needs a lot of work, he wouldn't be playing much on a good team.

KPJ on the other hand would not be a PG on a good team, and any antics would not be tolerated, but the fact remains that KPJ is the better player on both offense and defense. He is a better shooter, dribbler, passer, defender - and is the same size......the question is can Green catch up? I see him working on shooting that is great, but he needs to be working on left handed dribbles.....hesitation dribbles and things that increase his "BAG" per se.

If he does that, we can have a fair fight, right now KPJ is simply a better NBA player....

DD

 

This lost time narrative is so bunk. Green also entered the NBA during Coivd year. Without Covid he was supposed to have a full Gleague season of training and development and instead they made a make shift tournament at the last second to make up for no season. That was his experience between high school and joining the NBA.

And are we going to pretend the Rockets maximized Green's talent by having project pgs and and project players at eveey positoon around him?

kPJ joined a team in the Cavs that at least had more solid vets and non project pgs.

 

I do not think they are going after the same things......while both are not great defenders.

KPJ is after assists, catch and shoot numbers and rebounds. When he is hot, he probably keeps on chucking.

Jalen can do it too but mainly just an off the dribble shooter and scorer, slasher.

When they grow older, I think the difference will be more notable.

 

gimme a list of every professional athlete that has ever walked out on their team at half time...

i mean i think most everyone believes that Antonio Brown is a total asshat - i doubt he'll ever find employment again in the NFL...

then there's kjp...

who else?

i mean quitting on your team midgame like Hard-on against SAS (and other occasions) is is totally inexcusable imo... and it would take some hardcore convo before id ever put that dude on the floor again...
pulling yourself out of a game like Pippen... or throwing a towel in the coaches face like Horry did... are totally improper - and that dude would be sitting at least a couple games if it were me...

choking yer coach (spree), pulling a gun in the locker room (arenas), walking out at halftime... fu - enjoy Europe.

 

He definitely wasn't more effective on offense. Green has more positive impact on offense. And I think from the eye test I understand why. Green when he breaks down defenses takes 3-5 seconds allowing more flow in a offensive possession. KOJ takes 10-15 seconds to finally do something with breaking down defenses.

 

I don't think those are correct.. Everywhere I see has KPJ as a better on/off player than JG.

https://craftednba.com/players/kevin-porter-jr.

https://craftednba.com/players/jalen-green

PM, DARKO, RAPTOR, BPM.. KPJ is better all around

 

All those combine on/off with counting stats. Which means a player who diversivies assists and rebounds will naturally be higher even if it doesn't result in better impact for the team. The way the counting box score aspect of those metrics are applied, a player that does 14 6 6 has more "value" than a player that does 20 4 3.


But from actually on/off when Green is on the court, the Rockets are a much more efficient team. 95th percentile in on/off team scoring efficiency.

And it's not like either player plays significantly more time with bench units to skew the results.

Then there are other things we can observe. For example when the Rockets win, KPJ has one of the highest drop offs in usage rates between losses and wins. Green has one of the highest usage rate jumps between losses and wins on the team.

 

I mean those metrics are pretty predictive of win production.. but I do see what you're saying. Even with that said, JGs skills still align better with the bench than with the starting unit IMO. We need them both to take a big step forward this year, especially defensively.

 

I know you have your set development curves by year, but they can’t be so rigid. KPJ’s first 1.5 yrs were lost time, basically…
If we’re talking "hope", right, you can’t say ‘there is hope for JG and no hope for KPJ"
I personally think both of them are long shots for superstar status, but if we are talking hope, there is still hope for either of them…

you’re pathetic. what’s wrong with you, what is this unhealthy crush you have on this kid, you’re wierding me out.

My comment had nothing to do with Green, it was about KPJ. @harold bingo has these preconceptions about when a player is a final product, and I was just pointing out that he can’t be so rigid about KPJ, given his turbulent first years. It was not about Green, no need to jump-in with your "Leave Britney alone!" psychotic stufff…

 

Let's be real. Your addiction to hating Green is far more uncanny as a Rocket fan than a fan being really excited about a player. Like seriously, self-awareness much? Most of your posting on this message board since Green joined the team is ******** on him. That's more sad and pathetic.

Don't be so rigid on KPJ...

Dude seriously some self awareness does wonders. How about... Don't be so rigid about Green.

 

The stats for the young ages are very noisy (meaning it is hard to identify the actual trend) and very sensitive to external conditions. This is even more true in the horrendously coached rockets, where players played out of position, without a pg, with almost no team-play, off-ball movement and no defense. The difference between KPJ and Green are minor statistically in that respect, doesn't matter much who is ahead in some departments.

Whether you think KPJ or Green better, it is(or should be) mainly based on the talent, skills, drive, work-ethic, improvement rate(not just stat wise) you see in the players. That is clearly Green in my opinion. We should be seeing major differences this year to confirm that though.