God...is that you??? That statement alone...partcularly when its describing your own contentions...your own opinions...tells me all I need to know about reading through your posts. Hypocrisy?? How about just treating people with some level of respect?
I respect everyone, just not religion. Most people are looking for a leader, be it a politician, a quarterback, a point guard, or a religios leader, they are looking. God gave us a free will and a mind to contemplate his/her existance. I don't believe that God can be found between the pages of any book, but only by looking within. Do I believe in God? You bet ! Do I believe in relgion? Hell no ! Religion breeds intolerance, and that is one of the biggest causes of wars and strife. Am I callous about it? You bet !! I can not see how intelligent people can honestly follow a book or tablet of stories that was written by man. Man is corruptable, and has proven it time and time again, and the men/women who wrote the Bible, the Q'ran, the Torah, etc..etc.. all are human and therefore flawed. God exists, but the search for him is not found in any human oriented set of rules & guidelines. DD
CONTEXT. This is in a parable of the ungrrateful man that had been pardoned for what he owed the king, then turned around and wanted the ultimate done to those that owed him.... This was Jesus speaking, and quoting, what a man had done, and how NOT to be. CONTEXT is a real pain ain't it? But I see you have already recanted in the "retractions" page after the front page story ran and got press, and readers. Way to be accurate.
Hey--I can admit when I make a mistake. I explained and apologized. Happens to us all. But I still stand by my original posts, and will add the following: Look at Paul's command in Romans 12:19. It clearly forbids individual, personal vengeance, declaring that vengeance belongs to God. However in the following verses Paul goes on to explain how God takes that vengeance. In 13:3-4 he explains that a government official is the revenger that God has appointed to execute his wrath. No doubt some governments do not follow God. No doubt some officials have used their power of life and death to do evil. But this does not deny the fact that God has given government the authority to enact and enforce laws for the protection/support/praise of those who do good things and for the punishment/revenge against them that do evil things. There can be no doubt about Paul's meaning here. Remember that the same God who gave the command to not kill sent the Israelite nation into the promised land to kill and drive out the inhabitants of that land. Taking human life is not always murder, according to the Bible. Murder is the unauthorized taking of human life. If it is authorized by God, then it is not murder. Now how exactly is murder, authorized by God for war, capital punishment, etc., any different from say...death to the infidels? There are plenty of texts in the Bible to support smiting the non-believers, and easy justification (in the NT, no less) to back up God supported violence. seems like the same thing to me. Blackfish
Context again. He is referring to the Roman rulers with the sword, in that they are appointed by God directly. He is teaching that those in auithority are allowed by God Himself to be in authority. Stop debating what you clearly do not read in context. Many law enforcement groups that have Christian emphasis use this as a basis for doing their jobs with the blessings of God... Because that's what it means. Context.
No...clearly you're missing the point. I'm saying that both religions have texts that justify violence in the name of God. The quote above does just that. Both religions (see original posts) condemn the non-believers. it's a very small leap to see that both religions have and do inspire followers to do violence in the name of their God, and that Christianity is no more blameless than Islam. Yes--the context is not specifically "Death to the Infidels"--but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots. Blackfish
You come in here with that comment, how do you expect to have any credibility? The prophet is not Allah. Allah means God, and Muhammad is the messenger of Islam. You know, that actually made me feel a lot better. I thought you had some basic knowledge, but clearly you don't. Clearly, you're talking out of your ass.
From what I understand, Muslims don't believe there are two Testaments. To be completely honest with you, the majority opinion is that none of the Testaments are accurate and that they have been "touched". What Muslims do believe in is the words of Jesus Christ on paper. The Christian belief is that the New Testament was divinely inspired, correct? But exactly when was this done, and by who?
Word on the religious streets was that the Old Testament quite resembled the Qur'an til it was pulled from shelfs. The Qur'ran was seen as a a revision and update to it.
No, I'm not missing that you're misquoting the Christian texts, while denying that Muslim texts suggest Jihad and violence as the clarion call and course of action, for the current believers. So, then.. have you foound any other religious texts to misquote and mislead by yet? Just wondering, because I've only seen you counter my claims with attacks against Christianity... while I've repeatedly stated that this tone from Islam is directed at ALL religions other than Islam... And you've even shown that there is a problem with Jews marrying Muslims... Why? Is it Zionism hatred? Part of why it is alarming to see the holocaust discounted as a fable or lie, when the Islamic world speaks out against "Zionists" quite frequently.... America is considered a "Christian" nation because of its founding, whether we are post-Christian or not, we are targets for Jihad. Zionism contains the Christian and Jewish faiths, traditionally, yet you personally have claimed no quarrel with Christianity in marriages, but turn right around and slam it's texts (proving nothing), but say you can't marry into Judaism? Jesus, a Jew, was of the linegae of David... of the Lineage of Jacob.. of the lineage of Isaac.. of the lineage of Abraham... whom also was father of Ishmael.. so basically Jews and Arabs (and eventualy founders of Islam) are brothers... What's the deal? You can slam the Bible (though falsely), deny Muslims to marry Jews, yet every other person is wrong for believing what the Qu'ran directly translates to? Something's hidden here. There is hate, and death, aimed at every non-Allah religion. And you know it, yet try to cover it up with "the Qu'ran is not to be translated." What are you hiding if not the truth? Why defend the text from translation? Have you asked your Imam about this? Or has he dismissed it as well? btw- Rockets R' Us... When did the Qu'ran get "cannonized" and by whom? Wasn't Islam founded some 600+ years after Christ lived? And wasn't Christ's birth recorded some 400+ years after the writing of the Talmud (Old Testament)? So then, where is the "pulled from the shelfs" idea come from? Plagarism is more precisely what took place with the addition of the hostility toward "infidels." Research it.
I misquoted once--old news. The other quotes, given the point I was making, are valid, though that is a matter of opinion, and we don't agree...that's fine. I don't agree that Jihad and violence are the dominant messages of Islam. Sorry. I know this is the premise of the thread, and don't have any hopes of changing your mind. The point, which I will repeat, is that most religions--monotheistic religions--involve persecution of other faiths, encouraged and supported by God in one form or another, which is yet another reason I don't subscribe to them. No--can you suggest some? The rest of your posting is intended for someone else, I think. I didn't make the claims you're discussing.
I don't think he completely meant that, it's hard or it would be hard to explain so hopefully he'll jump back in here and do it. If he did mean that then I apologize. I don't understand religion myself, I mean if you all believe in the same thing God, Allah, whatever then why are there so many branches of every religion (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.) and each one has their own rules and regulations of how things should be done?
You thouroughly misqouted, or at least misinterpreted (irony), the text in Romans. I understand you don't agree with Jihad.. but, then, why defend that the texts are "not to be translated?" Why discount another religion (singling it out) while not seeing that the topic was that the inbred hatred of Jews, Christians and all other religions besides Islam, taught throughout the Muslim community, is what is being fostered by this article in a predominate newspaper in a heavily Muslim region of the world? And that it is a concern that ALL other religious beliefs, creeds, and nations should be alerted too? All I said was "wake up" that "some" are causing this trouble, perhaps trying to in your words be more "harsh.." in this present time? If it's ineveitable for this Jihad to be waged, and some are taking it on themselves to wage it now... why be upset at me echoing what they've already begun and making more light of it? Why? If you were indifferent, then why try and discredit the truth found INSIDE the Qu'ran??? Nice cop out. Perhaps it is also true that some practicing Muslims, in some areas, do not realize the severity and imminent urgency that there own religion is pointing them to war. And why not? Where are the majority of war reports from in the world over the past 30 years? Now it has hit American soil.. so now Americans see it first hand, and I for one, am alarmed by the lack of "seeing things as they are" that goes on. Our own 9/11 commission said as much... WAKE UP
Dude--will you please check who is writing what? I didn't say that. I can't argue points that I didn't make in the first place! I don't know which of your comments were made for me anymore, so I'm just dropping this. Interesting discussion though. I'm sure we'll have more. Blackfish
Oh, btw... We don't believe in the same thing. Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in totally different things. As for the branches, it's simply a matter of humans being imperfect. The message wasn't clearly recieved, so there was a difference in opinion about what is "right". But the basics are the same: Christians have the same Bible, Muslims have the same Qura'an, and Jews have the same Torah. Every branch in each religion believes in the same God.
IROC it, still waiting for your reply to my last post directed towards you. Unless you are speechless, in which case nevermind.
I don't know why I came back to this hell hole of a forum called "Debate and Discussion" I wish I could ignore it and stop clicking every time I see a yellow light
