Iraqi Sanctions

Well like the most of the nations in the UN I was for lifting the sanctions. Turns out there wasn't wmd nor really a reason for them. Killing those kids was wrong. Don't forget the unnecessary bombing of the electric grid, the water and sewerage systems that made the sanctions so deadly to the children and other innocents.

I guess you would argue that even in retrospect we should have killed some more Iraqi children with sanctions despite the absence of wmd. You of course speculate that eventually or is it inevitably? Sadam would have become a threat in the future. You treat your speculations as being 100% certain like facts and then use them to justify the killing that is still continuing. Given your errors on the wmd, have you ever thought your speculations don't have the certainty of facts?

Of course, Cheney lobbied to end the sanctions before becoming vp. We can consider him a traitor to his country or I would argue someone who didn't believe Sadam was a threat.

Watch the Moore film. You can learn something. You can see Powell and also Rice argue that Sadam was not a threat

Can you tell me were Cheney, Powell and Rice lying then or later?

You were played, Hayes. Sadam was not the threat to the woerld like the Stalin of your father's youth

 

So, despite the fact that Saddam violated cease fire agreements that he signed (or at least his generals) for a war that he started we should have ended the sanctions? What should we have done with Iraq and Saddam? He started that war, he agreed to terms to end it and stay in power and then he violated those terms. How do you deal with someone like that? Let bygones be bygones?

Also, please don't use Moore as a source for anything credible unless you are prepaired to accept Limbaugh or Coulter as legitimate sources as well. Fair is fair.

 

Chase. Have you seen the film? There you can see Powell and also Rice say Sadam was not a threat earlier in 2001, before 9/11.

This is a fact. don't try to confuse things with Rush or whomever. See the actual footage of Powell and Rice. Why not be open minded and get all the facts. This has been reported on for years and they can't deny it.

 

Glynch, can you really, sincerely ask someone else to be open minded about politics?

Also, you never answered my questions about what to do with Iraq after the first war. I'm not asking to be an ass. I'm really curious to hear what you have to say. I might not agree but I do want to hear your opinion.

 

There's a flip side to this argument you're forgetting. If we had continued sanctions 900+ and counting American troops wouldn't have died in Iraq along with almost 6,000 and counting US troops injured.

For the record I didn't support lifting sanctions until Saddam had fully complied with UN inspections. I was against the invasion as being uneccesarry but believed Saddam needed to be contained.

 

HAVE-IT-2-WAYS ALERT


HAVE-IT-2-WAYS ALERT


HAVE-IT-2-WAYS ALERT

 

Chase, Well Iraq had withdrawn from Kuwait and had been defeated. That was all that was really needed.

They learned their lesson, had their power drastically curtailed. As we learned after WWI with the Germans , and are learning in Iraq when you push things too far after the militaryvictoryyou get a mess.

The Iraq quagmire that we presently have and which will drag both us ,the Iraqis and the whole Middle East down for years was caused by the stupidity of the US primarily and also the UN after the war. Taking a legalistic position that they agreed to this or that is not helpful and simplistic.

So you admit to being afraid to opening your mind to Farhenheit 9/11? Too bad.

 

Hey hayes, who's "we"?

Is it you and glynch?

Perhaps I am getting it wrong, but that's who "we" looks like to me from here.

 

So, in your opinion, Saddam would have gone home and been a good boy till he resigned and he let Uday or Quesay take over?

 

Otherwise known as an Orange Alert.

Remain alert, remain vigilant, report suspicious activity.

 

How noble of you to mock what protects you.

Unfortunately, and God forbid, if anything does "blow up in the face of all the cynics" and the terror alert system has to be proven by a bombing, and not just through arrests... somehow, the left will also blame the administration.

 

Hayes, now you say you wanted the war because you care about Iraqi children. Before it was wmd and imminent threat. Recently it was speculation about eventually an "inevitable" threat.

Admittedly your continually changing reasons are no different from the way the Bush gang kept changing.

Essentially you are saying now that since the sanctions killed a lot of people, the war was justified. Maybe if you took the time to research Cheney's and the other's pre 9/11 statements, in light of the facts that were actually found re wmd and imminent threat, you would decide that you were played and the sanctions weren't necessary. Therefore, under your latest justification, neither was the war.

You demand near perfection on the facts and honesty out of Moore before finding even film clips he supplies from the network news as credible, but so little of the pro-war guys.

 

Hayes:

You raise the dirty secret of sanctions.

They sound fine and dandy, but often do result in greater harm to civilians than to the leaders at which they are directed.

The claim that they kill millions however is not quite accurate, as it was Saddams policies that killed, rather than the sanctions themselves. Cuba has had far more severe sanctions for a longer period of time, yet it isn't killing millions of its children.

They are not a solution by themselves, obvioulsy, and the UN and US has to monitor human rights violations and react to them. They have a poor record on this front.

However, if it was the effect of sanctions that we were concerned about, then wouldn't the better course have been to adjust the sanctions rather than invade?

 

What a novel idea...honesty from Michael Moore