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Dallas could be angling to get both Kidd AND Carter

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Sherlock, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. Sherlock

    Sherlock Member

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    Dallas' trades have been interesting. They have way too many players to start the year off with. It seems that they have been breaking their bigger contracts into smaller pieces, so they have more variety to trade with. Now they have lots of moveable trading chits.

    For instance, now that they are sending Walker to ATL, they can send a really good point guard to NJ to replace Kidd. Now I'm sure each team would prefer a superstar of similar value, but no one is trading them. So, they'll have to settle for other objectives that would help rebuild their team. In each of these deals, they probably want (1) young talent, (2) a veteran who can start for who's leaving, and (3) some cap relief.So, I could easily see the following:

    DAL sends Terry/Laettner/Howard to NJ for Kidd
    DAL sends Stackhouse/Henderson/Harris to TOR for Carter

    Dallas would now have:

    Booth/Bradley/Pavlizone/MBenga
    Nowitski/Najera
    Carter/TAQ/Sekularac
    Finley/Daniels/Stephanson
    Kidd/Delk/Flores

    If it was possible, the Midwest just got tougher.

    It would not surprise me, though, if SanAntonio doesn't make a big bid for Kidd. They COULD send Parker/Ginobli/Rose to NJ, and that would be beat anything Dallas could do easily. SanAntonio has to think of not only getting a better team, but also keeping Dallas, Denver or Memphis from becoming contenders too. Kidd could create a bit of a bidding frenzy among Midwest teams. Denver could send Miller/Tskitishvilli/Boykins or even Hilario, Memphis could send Williams/Wells or Miller, Indiana could send Tinsley/Bender/Croshere or even Artest, and Detroit could send Billups/Darko/Cambell. All of these deals could beat what Dallas sends, in terms of talent, but not in reducing salary. It all depends on what NJ wants.
     
  2. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    The DAL/NJ deal you propose has some merrit. Terry is reasonably priced and would take the place of Kidd. Howard is a nice young player. Laettner has an expiring contract. I could see this deal.

    But the DAL/TOR trade stinks from Toronto's perspective. Stackhouse has a terrible contract and is broken down. Harris is a nice prospect. And Henderson is an expiring contract. But in reality Harris is the only real good piece here. Is Stackhouse going to be the new draw for Toronoto? They aren't going to deal Carter unless they can a bankable star in return. Stackhouse isn't it.
     
  3. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Man, if Toronto trades Carter for spare parts....I don't know. Sure, McGrady got himself out of Orlando, but Orlando got some decent players in return (and Steve at least is a gate attraction).

    Would Toronto be better off acquiring players that can win a la Detroit, with no set star? Or without a set star would basketball interest in the Canadian city kinda fall off?
     
  4. Just B

    Just B Member

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    i actually like your NJ trade. It gives NJ a few good players to at least keep the franchise on life-support until next season's free agent extravaganza, and it gives Dallas some actual discipline (something they've been lacking forever)

    As for the Toronto one, I guess yours is just as good as anyone's I've seen. Unless Toronto gets another superstar in return, the Raptors are DEAD. And even someone like Pierce wouldn't work, because he's not really a big ticket seller despite being a great player. Same with Ray Allen.....but like I said, yours is as good as any other suggestion we've heard lately for Carter ;)
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Only problem is, as I understand it, these deals could not be made for months due to types of trades, rookie contract rules and contracts that brought players to Dallas and/or Dallas signed players for.
     
  6. Sherlock

    Sherlock Member

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    No doubt that Carter has gate appeal. But, his knees are shot, and he's not the "final piece," like Kidd is for many teams. I don't see very many good trades out there for Toronto, except for young talent ... and I especially don't see any contenders who could send him someone who'd put fans in the seats.
     
  7. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Fair points. But if I am Toronto, I take my chances with Carter rather than Stackhouse & Harris.

    There has been a rumored deal of Marbury for Carter (NY Post). Not sure how legit that is, but that is much more appealing from Toronto's perspective I would believe.
     
  8. codell

    codell Member

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    Kind of a misleading thread title isn't it?

    I was scared for a few secs there.
     
  9. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    i would be shocked if someone dealt for Kidd before the preseason or if anyone offers a big package for him.

    Rep as a coach killer and prima donna, major knee microfracture surgery at the age of 31, and $90 million over the course of 5 years.

    That's one heck of a gamble.

    If SA actually sent Parker and Ginobili for him, I would lose bowel control.

    Evan
     
  10. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I believe the select few in the NBA that have had that surgery haven't been the same player since. Just not something they fully recover from. Chances are Kidd's court speed will be greatly reduced because of the injury.
     
  11. Sherlock

    Sherlock Member

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    Well, I'm not the only one wondering if Dallas is after Carter and Kidd:

    <a href="http://www.nypost.com/sports/nets/28516.htm">NY Post: MAVS MAY WANT KIDD</a>

    August 4, 2004 -- Having acquired Jason Terry in a deal for Antoine Walker yesterday, the <b>Dallas Mavericks</b> may be gearing up for a run at Jason Kidd, league sources maintain.
    No deal could be done for 60 days after Terry's trade, and the Mavs actually welcome the time as a better way to gauge Kidd's recovery from left knee surgery. The Nets and Mavs had spoken in recent weeks on a deal involving Kidd and Walker, a trade that became moot when Walker went to Atlanta. However, the Mavs apparently feel Terry would be a better fit in any proposal to get Kidd.

    Both sides feel that the next move belongs to Kidd, who has adopted a wait-and-see approach. Kidd, who was angered by the Nets trading Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles for draft picks, met with team brass, then agreed to assess the situation after a cool-down period.

    On other fronts, the Nets' courtship of free agents Ron Mercer and Eric Williams continues, with Mercer seemingly closer to getting done. "We're still working at it," said Mercer's agent, Andy Miller.

    But with Williams, the 6-8 Cavs free agent who the Nets feel could replace some of Martin's lost rebounding and defense, negotiations that were moving smoothly may have stalled. The Nets have offered three years at $11.5 million and "we're just waiting to hear back on a few things," said Williams' agent, Mark Bartelstein.

    "Everything is about where it was," said Nets CEO Rod Thorn.

    <a ref="http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/9316540.htm">Fort Worth Star Telegram:</a>

    <b>Trade could provide Mavs an assist later</b>

    By Art Garcia
    Star-Telegram Staff Writer
    Posted on Wed, Aug. 04, 2004

    Though the Mavericks are adding a veteran point guard and moving Antoine Walker to the Eastern Conference, Jason Kidd remains in New Jersey. <b>The Mavs</b>, however, possibly took another step toward a potential blockbuster trade for Kidd down the road.

    In a four-player trade expected to be approved today by the NBA office, the Mavs pick up Jason Terry in a deal that sends Walker and reserve guard Tony Delk to Atlanta. In addition to Terry, the Mavs receive oft-injured forward Alan Henderson and a future first-round draft choice or $1 million.

    Theoretically, the trade accomplishes several goals for the Mavs. It provides insurance at point guard, moves a player (Walker) disillusioned with his role, and potentially keeps the Mavs in position to land Kidd if New Jersey entertains offers for the star playmaker.

    The Mavs can now include Terry in a trade should New Jersey desire an immediate replacement for Kidd at point guard. However, the Mavs can't package Terry or Henderson with other players on the roster for at least 60 days. That could be enough time to ascertain how Kidd is recovering from recent knee surgery.

    In addition to Kidd's knee, his contract remains a potential hurdle. The Mavs aren't willing to assume the $90 million over five years without considerable financial relief, according to league sources. Calvin Booth, Jerry Stackhouse and Tariq Abdul-Wahad each have three years remaining on their respective contracts ranging from $19 million to $22.5 million. Christian Laettner and Henderson have expiring contracts totaling more than $14 million.

    Kidd, who met with Nets officials last week to discuss the direction of the team, also hasn't demanded a trade. Should Kidd, 31, decide he's better served wearing another uniform next season, sources in New Jersey insist the Nets are ready to move the perennial All-Star.

    The Mavs have made three trades and lost Steve Nash since their season ended in the first round of the playoffs. They jettisoned Antawn Jamison, Danny Fortson, Walker and Delk. The deals netted Stackhouse, Laettner, Booth, Terry, Henderson, rookie point guard Devin Harris and the potential draft choice.

    The pick is lottery-protected in 2005 and contains restrictions for the following two years. If the restrictions are met, Atlanta sends the Mavs $1 million.

    "You have to put yourself in position to make something happen," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said recently. "If you do the right things consistently with smaller moves, it's easier to do the bigger moves."

    In the meantime, Terry helps alleviate pressure on Harris caused by Nash's free-agent departure to Phoenix. During his five years with the Hawks, Terry averaged 16.2 points and 5.5 assists. Though he has generally been considered a scoring point guard, the Arizona product averaged a career-high 7.4 assists during the 2002-03 season.

    Walker, acquired from Boston a week before the start of last season, averaged 14.0 points and 8.3 rebounds during his one season with the Mavs. His production fell off dramatically during the second half of the season, as he struggled to fit into Don Nelson's system. The Mavs coach hoped to use Walker at point forward, but the former All-Star finished the season at center and clearly wasn't part of the team's future.

    Delk, also a piece of the Celtics trade last October, started early in the season for the Mavs before straining his left hamstring. He spent two long stints on the injured list and played only 33 games, averaging 6.0 points.

    <a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1091287423207_2/?hub=TopStories">CTV News</a>

    <b>Rumours about Vince Carter trade swirling</b>
    Canadian Press
    Jul. 31 2004 11:36 PM ET

    TORONTO — It had all the makings of a Vince Carter lovefest, but it may just have been Carter's last game as a Raptor.

    Carter held his annual all-star charity game Friday night at the Air Canada Centre amid swirling trade rumours, and secondhand scuttlebutt that the Raptor star wants nothing more to do with Toronto.

    Fans cheered Carter's high-flying dunks and hoisted signs pleading with the player to stay in Toronto.

    But once again, Carter didn't do much to dispel the rumours. Yes, he did say he wants to remain a Raptor, but at the same time, he didn't exactly give the team a ringing endorsement.

    When a reporter told Carter that fans would like to know if he plans to come back next season, Carter said: "Of course.

    "I had the charity game this year, didn't I? If I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't have it. I think people worry about the wrong thing, just let it happen, let's look at the positive things."

    Still, the five-time NBA all-star dodged questions about his future, and rumours that have him going anywhere from <b>Dallas</b> to Seattle, to New Orleans even New York, which the New York Daily News reported Friday.

    Other trade talk has Carter going to the Seattle SuperSonics for Ray Allen.
     
    #11 Sherlock, Aug 4, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2004
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Sherlock, perhaps I missed it, but where are they saying that Dallas is going after Kidd AND Carter. I just see where they are speculating that Dallas would try to go after Kidd OR Carter.

    I am not sure Dallas has the resources to get BOTH. They could try to make a good offer for one of them, but I doubt for Both.

    Also consider that Carter AND Kidd have Max contracts. So does Finley and Dirk. 4 Max contracts? That is a lot. If they were afraid to pay Nash big money now and when he is in his mid 30's, why would they then jump in and go after Kidd with the same scenario. Carter is pretty shaky as well in terms of health. That would be A LOT of money tied up into players that might be questionable healthwise for the future.
     
  13. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    Spot on.

    Isn't this the surgery where you puncture the actual kneecap? It's basically a last-ditch operation, with the understanding that you can only be 80% of what you once were.
     
  14. daNasty

    daNasty Member

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    Not going to happen. Toronto will NOT trade Carter to Dallas only if it include Nowitski. They've made a big mistake of letting TMac free and they are stupid enough to let Air Carter fly for some players. Carter is the BIGGEST draw and they're going to need a big name in return.

    Toronto isn't stupid to trade him to Dallas for Stackhouse. Carter worth much more then that and they can get a much better deal. Anyone who's getting Carter will have a sellout crowd so be looking for a big deal for Carter and not some scrubs.

    If I were them trade him to Bobcats for some players and a first round draft pick. Toronto need to rebuilt.
     
  15. daNasty

    daNasty Member

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    I mean aren't not "are"
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    yeah...right after they get shaq these deals will come through.

    maybe if they'd commit to building a team instead of a pile of assets, i'd have more respect for cuban and the mavs. basketball is a team sport. just ask italy. ;)
     
  17. kanevil

    kanevil Member

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    Yea right.... Cuban is rich but he aint stupid. The only way he cant get that much talent is to give up talents he already have.
     
  18. dirtyfithynasty

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    I think Cuban is looking at one more deal. i think he is looking at Howard and Laettner for Dampier. the only problem is that trade can't be completed for a few more weeks.
     

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