Process Brain is the Scourge of Our Time (Or. why the Rockets should WIN NOW and forever)

People should give no quarter to posters like this if the team makes unpredictable jumps in the next two years where we are enjoying competitive playoff basketball. If that happens, please don't let posters like him enjoy it on this message board. Always bring it up everytime they express any type of joy over this team because they obviously fit the bvvery definition of bandwagon fan.

The extreme pessimism of guys like San Fisher means that their narcissism is going to lead to them eventually rooting for the team to fail to match their doom predictions.

Ya I understand Sam that you might say you hope you are wrong but those are what we call vapid appeasement to not look unhinged here.

 

I agree that what we've done hasn't worked. I also agree that we look like a bad team next year - bottom 4, in my opinion.

But I really think this thread wouldn't have been made had we gotten the #1 pick. If we had lost that coin flip with SA, then we would have gotten the #1 pick. Then probably a couple half-decent vets sign with us. And all of the sudden, the 4 year Houston Rockets Tank looks like the most brilliant organizational strategy in NBA history. But... the ping pong balls bounced the other way and we got pick #4. Now, the one-year Spurs Tank looks like one of the most brilliant organizational decisions in NBA history. It seems to me more like we did the right thing, but we just didn't catch enough luck.

We also got unlucky* in that the year in which we have plenty of cap space, there aren't any FAs worth a damn. Harden is apparently staying in Philly. Seems like our best hope is to pay Brook Lopez $35 million a year to be a backup to Sengun?? ****, it's bleak.

So, I don't know. I think that the difference between "failed plan" and "brilliant plan" in our case was a literal coin flip. That's not enough for me to dismiss the entire endeavor as wrongheaded.

*Asterisk here because we could all see a few years ago that this FA class would be lame, but some here deluded themselves into thinking cap space actually matters anymore when it comes to signing FAs.

 

What wasn't working was the ratio of young dudes to vets.

Because let me tell you a 9 man rotation that has an average age younger than UofH D1 ball 9 man rotation is not going to win games now matter the talent level you nailed in the draft.

The issue isn't picking the right or wrong players.

Too much impatience man. Hard disagree that talent chosen is the issue.

Wemby added to last year's team would probably not even net us much more wins outside of a few. And you'd still label this rebuild a failed plan. The only 19 year olds who joined the NBA and immediately impacted added wins in a meaningful way are guys like Lebron, Luka and Zion. In fact they are the only ones. And notice all three have one thing in common. They ain't frail dudes who get blown away into the wind with a blown kiss. They all entered the NBA with the ability to have NBA defenders bounce off them. Shaq came in a little older at 20 but his immediate dominance was also because he could push around NBA defenders.

 

Preach…

 

You’re not alone Fish!!!

This is HTown!!! ….


Go Rockets!!!
…….
…….
…….

 

going all in for the play-in is a strategy. building true contenders by trading for stars has become untenable. the price to acquire them (all your picks and some good young players) is too high, and the Supermax is too constrictive. teams that go that route don't win (remember the nets?). the superteam era is over, by design.

I prefer to keep our future ceiling high, even if it means a lower floor right now. just because you're tired of losing (I get it, me too) doesn't mean we're on the wrong path. we were VERY lucky tilman allowed the team to tank for 3 years. Les never did. we have a haul of young talent, more so than at any other time during my 30 year fandom. the future is bright as long as you don't dim the switch for some immediate gains.

that being said I'm all for adding win-now vets through free agency. short term overpays are ok as long as we keep cap flexibility for when our young core hopefully earns big extensions. i see our roster as 2 timelines. amen, jalen, tari, jabari, sengun, whitmore as the future... then $60M in cap to try to win as many games as we can this year. in fact I'd try to move off of kpj and tate to try to clear 2 more roster/rotation spots and near $80M for better/more win now vets. so we can have it both ways, don't touch the core players, but use cap space to win now.

 

Another boomer crying about tanking. It’s been 3 years! You guys do realize building a competitive team takes time right? If you don’t like the product, don’t watch it. Go bandwagon another team and have fun.

 

Knee jerk reactions. Impatience.

 

I enjoyed the read(s), Sam. I'm sure the reaction wasn't unexpected. The GARM is a blender.

 

Where are you getting this info and these numbers from I’m curious? Grant has never been a starter and what report says he refuses to be a bench player? It’s also reported his value is 12-14 mil around the MLE. Lopez is 35 and made 13 mil last year and valued at 3 yrs 54 mil for his next contract due to the 38 rule. And it’s not outside the realm of possibility that Cam Johnson want a chance to play for more money with a young talented team in a starting role as a 3. He did play wing at North Carolina.

 

I didn't realize it until it happened, but I watched more regular season games after the Harden trade than I had in the couple of seasons prior. I didn't even realize how bored I had gotten with the team. I was really only concerned with the playoffs. When they drafted Green and Sengun, I was much more interested in the regular season games. I never noticed until after the change occurred. I was bored with the Harden Rockets. I watched the playoffs, and was obviously disappointed, but it wasn't until the rebuild that regular season games became appointment TV for me again.

I've loved the drafts, but now it is time for Stone to make some real deals. This offseason is going to determine what level GM he actually is.

 

Lopez had one of the best seasons of his career.
First team all defense.
Finished 3rd in DPOY
2.5 blocks per game
15.9 points per game
6.7 rebounds per game

So the Bucks can offer $18 million on the average over 3 years.
Rockets can give him what, $18M per year over 2 years? He's not coming to
Houston to be a backup. Or he's not coming to Houston.
I know Woj said Houston is a serious contender.....that's leverage
again just as Harden was using us as well.

Grant Williams will seek starter minutes with another team.
He is projected at $20 million per year.
https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-...ing-contract-in-the-20-million-annually-range

Again, why would he leave a good thing if the Celtics are in good shape to repeat
and Boston shipped out Marcus Smart and Brogdon to help accommodate
the Jaylen Brown and Grant Williams signings?

People were asking why would Harden leave a good thing in Philly
to join a loser in Houston. Does he not want to compete? Does he
not want to contend?

Well why don't they ask Grant Williams, Brook Lopez, Conley, Harrison Barnes,
and others that same question?

CP3 was traded to Washington and said heck no. I'm not playing here, so
they shipped him to the Warriors.

We had that from Favors, Danny Green, Holiday.....refusing to show up.

It's going to be tough on Stone. Most of these free agents will want to start
while we have to overpay. They want to get started on their next contract.
Hoping to maximize their return and pay grade their pay significantly.

It's a business......players look out for themselves first and foremost.

 

This is your assumption and not necessarily fact. Williams isn’t a starter and doesn’t even play at a starter level. Where are you getting this starter info from? Stein reported that he is seeking 20 mil but that doesn’t mean its his market value. Lopez is 35 years old he doesn’t even fit the Rockets timeline. Not sure why reports link Rockets to some of these players that makes little sense in Terms of age. But again not outside the realm of possibility he leaves Bucks or sign with Houston. Teams do weird things sometimes. We don’t even know what the Bucks are prioritizing. They still have to address Middleton. There’s several holes on that team.

 

Out of the last 20 seasons, the rockets have made playoffs 13 times. The last three were obvious tanking so prior to this obvious tanking we had a 17 year stretch with 13 playoff appearances. That’s not bad at all.

And why would the peak of this rebuild result in post Yao - pre Harden years? lol. And of course IF it results in that it will be a failure, I don’t think anyone will argue that.

But like someone here said, rockets were not allowed to tank before and he had to suffer those van Gundy years where the dude will squeeze out a couple of meaningless wins at the end of the season and we were still out of playoffs, when other teams in same position were losing games and getting much better picks then us and as a result it was just a continuous treadmill.

We lucked out the dumb OKC gave us Harden on a silver platter.

We are in a much better position now than that pre harden team that basically had no great prospects or potential. Just the mathematical probability is that at least some of these high picks we got will pan out to pretty damn good players.

 

The free agency hasn’t even started yet. And we have the most available cap space out there. The team has indicated they want to add veterans to win now and you have no idea what the final roster will look like to start the year, do you? How do you know this is another 20 win season coming up? And lastly, who pissed in your Cheerios?

 

Repeat what? You’re making it sound like they won a title hah

 

And this will be the excuse Stone and his sponsor will use to try and escape the backlash when they possibly come up short in free agency and end up doing another Thesis level type signing due to the weak class and those other free agents who choose to stay with their team or go to what they feel is a better win now situation

If Stone is wise he will take a page from Caserio and give out 1 yr overpay contracts or two year with team option for second season to remain flexible and in the mix for the following free agent class or disgruntled star

 

Yes, and why I think they went best player available.

They could give Harden the moon but don't want just one player
in free agency. Spread the money over several free agents.

I'm guessing the Rockets fear free agents won't see Houston
as a good location or destination.

Drafting Amen at #4 means you start him right away or he will
be seen as a bust right away. But he blocks two positions.
1) PG: if you start him right away, which good FA point guard
wants to come here to be his backup? But they'll get paid!
Yeah but they will come with a pricetag and want to prove
themselves as worthy.
2) SF. Again which SF will we overpay to be a backup?
A chance of being backup to Amen at SF. A rookie
making what $7 to $9 million year one. @Stephen_A
feels Grant Williams would be willing to come
here and take a chance of being a backup to Amen
at SF while accepting ? $15 mil. A backup! To a rookie.
Grant Williams

This is why I hated the Amen draft pick. I'm hoping they
package him for something. A vet or two. Patrick Williams
and Caruso. They each make about $9 mil. Caruso
has already been a backup.....making backup money.
Patrick Williams is in our time frame.....because he will be
a traded commodity.....he will get to fight for starter minutes.

Often too much GM's fall in love with their draft picks.
They want to eventually prove drafting Josh Christopher
was the good move over drafting Grimes, which many
suspect Tilman wanted.

Will Stone make the tough call and send some of these
players off for vets (because free agents may not come here).

A new GM like Bob Myers will come in here and make while sale
changes because he did not pick these players. Not bound to them.
Like in football when a new coach says I didn't draft this quarterback
two years ago.....I'm going with this new quarterback as my franchise
guy.

I look forward to seeing what Stone does; but right now I see
him as too much like the lawyer. Tough negotiator....but
not the best team builder. He will need to make tough
calls to bring in some vets. And they will want to start.

NBA history has shown that. The only other team
that had high priced vets coming off the bench
to young kids has probably been the Warriors in
14/15. With Iggy and David Lee making big bucks
and coming off the bench to young upstarts.

 

Sam, I cannot really help you and I doubt Stone can either, not to the degree you would be happy.

TL DR - You suffer.

 

I think you are overthinking this. I don’t believe the Rockets intend to start Amen. Their starter at SF last year was KJM, so they could very well entice a Small Forward to come and start for this team. I personally don’t think they need a vet PG. We could use several vets that can shoot, they don’t have to start. I think Boston wants to keep Grant Williams so I think he is out of the equation. I don’t want Lopez and think he re-signs with the Bucks anyway. Jabari and Garuba can play a few minutes at Center to relieve Sengun, but I wouldn’t mind a good backup like Harkenstein or Poetl at the right price. I’d love Harrison Barnes and would overpay him to come and start for a couple of years, but I’m not sure he is attainable. Stone does indeed have his work cut out for him.