To say "get better at defense" is an insult to the Dream. Hakeem wasn't just a good defender,... he was a game-changing defender and up there with any of the greatest defenders of all time
Question should be what does Jokic need to do to eclipse Russell and Shaq. Then we can talk about Dream, Kareem, and Wilt.
When Dream retired, his all-time ranks were... Points - 7th (Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Shaq, & Melo came after) Rebounds - 11th (Duncan, KG, & Dwight came after) Blocks - 1st (Still sitting #1) Steals - 7th (Kidd, CP3, & Lebron came after) Dream and Lebron are the 2 most complete players of all-time. The definition of 2-way players. If Jokic can retire ranking in the top 11 in those categories while winning multiple rings, then we might can talk. Until then, this topic is blasphemy.
He can’t. Hakeem was an all world defender and a beast on offense. Jokic is 98% offense and 2% steals. He’s got good hands on defense, will give him that. And his vision is the best I’ve seen from a center in my memory.
He just needs 2 wins more rings. It's pretty set. He's already gonna get immortalized for winning 1 in Denver, something that has never happened Winning 3 rings in Denver is quite insane
What some of guys have to realize too, in the game of basketball individual defense is not as valuable as individual offense. Never has been! This is why guys James Harden are 100 million dollar men and Tony Allen is not. So the “Hakeem because of defense” argument doesn’t do anything for me. Defense is valuable and I’d obviously prefer a player be good on that side of the ball. But Jokic is an offense by himself, similar to prime Harden. He affects every decision the opposing defense makes. Impacts the game in ways we haven’t seen before.
No. Not if the question is if he is ultimately the better player. Winning more rings might make his legacy greater, but when you compare the players — Hakeem could have one no rings and he’d still he the better player overall. Jokic is almost nonexistent on defense (good hands tho). You just can’t be considered as good as one of the best ever on both sides of the ball, even if you’re one of the most impressive offensive player of the last couple decades.
Wtf is up with this Jokic vs Hakeem threads? Garbage hot take sports shows have ruined people's brains.
Easy. Opt out his player option in 2027 and sign with the Rockets and win championships in '28, '29 and '30 and retire a Rocket.
fair enough, obviously i completely disagree because i don't care where the players value comes from, i just care about their overall impact. Hakeem was an ok offensive player, but a TON of his value comes from defense.
Win another ring BACK TO BACK. Even then, Hakeem had one of the hardest roads to a title in NBA history. Jokic had 3 play-in teams. Degree of difficulty isn't there.
You're comparing a top 2-3 offensive center (let's not forget Kareem or Wilt, or hell maybe even Shaq here) vs the most complete center to ever play the game. That's what sets Hakeem apart in truth from most of the other big men of his era. Don't ever undersell Hakeem's defense, he's not good at defense like Dwight Howard in his prime was good at defense (which is, admittedly pretty phenomenal) he's the best defender ever. Look at his block and steal totals, that's a whole next level of defensive dominance, and then at the other end he'll give you the business better than anyone ever in the post skill wise, torch you from midrange and probably out rebound you whilst he's at it. Hakeem's debatably THE greatest center as an overall player in his prime, he just doesn't have the long term team success to back it up. Don't get it twisted though, Hakeem carried his team a LOT more than Jokic in an era where the 5's were some of the best, not a couple of top players then a drop off a cliff talent wise. Context matters.
Hol’ up. Wait a minute. Some thin’ ain’t right… “HAKEEM WAS AN OK OFFENSIVE PLAYER?!” he was “OK?!?!?” bro. brooooooo. bro. no. Lol Hakeem had some of the greatest foot work on offense the game has ever seen. He had turnaround jays. He could dunk over you. Under you. He could score backwards, literally! He was more than an “ok offensive player.” Maybe if you want to compare his defense to his offense. His defense was SO good it made his offense look just okay relative to his own defensive capabilities. But compared to every other center the league has ever seen, Hakeem was a good (bare minimum) to great offensive player.
