I think it is time for everyone to give Kobe Bryant credit for being arguably the best player in the NBA. A lot of the criticism that is constantly being thrown at Kobe is unwarranted and often time misconstrued. The guy only recently turned 23. I don't see how people can constantly refused to give this man the credit he deserves for being one of the most talented players in our generation. The things this man does at such a young age boggles the mind. Even though he averaged more than 5 APG, people can only see his selfish tendencies. But you also have to understand the youthful perspective of Kobe and just the background from which he comes. Coming out of high school and having absolutely no one coming close to his talent level, you can't expect this young man to join the next level and feel a certain humility towards joining a team concept. Especially when Kobe joins the league and sees how he abuses a so-called top level defender in Eddie Jones everyday in practice. If I was 18 and did that everyday, I would feel a supreme confidence in my abilities that would lead me to be weary of trusting my teammates. But what impressed me most about Kobe Bryant is that at the age of 18, he played crunch time minutes against the Utah Jazz in the Conference Semifinals. And in the elimination game, he threw up 3 airballs in crunch time. I would have bet the house that he would have never been the same after that. Considering a veteran like Nick Anderson wasn't able to handle the disappoint after his choke job, I figured Kobe would follow the same path. But much to his credit, he has never been unwilling to take the final shot and has OFFICIALLY developed himself into a crunch time player. That is a pure testament to his character. The bottom line is Kobe is TALENTED. He shoots a higher percentage than any guard in the league. He gets off any shot he wants. He has the creativity and ability to make his teammates exponentially better. I will finally concede that if I were to start a franchise today, Kobe Bryant is the MAN I would start my franchise with. Not Tim Duncan, not Shaq, not Stevie, not Tracey McGrady, but Kobe BRYANT. ------------------
Even though I got caught up in the 'Let's hate Kobe' hype, I'm going to take a brave step and say that he's one helluva player. Hell, I'm even starting to like him. ------------------ http://titansmania.50megs.com Larry Burns: "Boy, this guy's loaded. I mean he's got more bread than a prison meatloaf. He's loaded I tell you." and "...oh, do you have a paper towell, I stepped on one of your peacocks!"
Kobe's one of the top 5 players in the league, but please do not forget about Tracy Mcgrady. Mcgrady's one year younger than Kobe and doesn't have the asset of another big option on his team like Shaq (though he'll have Hill next year). We'll have to see how he does with Hill on the team next year. The only thing Kobe has on Tracy is that playoff experience and clutch play making ability, but Tracy is learning fast because I've seen him make some clutch shots this season. Kobe MAY be a better player as of now, but like I already said, Mcgrady's still 1 year younger. You can learn a lot in 1 year. ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
Bryant will have to prove that he can carry a team by himself before he can be considered for best in the league. I'm not just talking about for stretches in games, either, I'm talking about an entire season. The reason he is able to do whatever he wants out there is because he is not the main focus of the defense. Shaq gets all the attention from the other team, and he still puts up the numbers. Bryant is only being half-guarded by his man, because that man always has to worry about collapsing on Shaq. Bryant always also has the luxury of getting bailed out on drives because of Shaq's presence. If he gets in a tough spot, just throw it up and Shaq will slam it in. Jordan had to deal with situations like "The Jordan Rules". Bryant doesn't get anywhere close to that kind of attention from defenses, and never will as long as Shaq is around. He's a very good, maybe even great player, but man does he have it easy out there.
Kobe Bryant's not THAT good! You say you would build a franchise around him, he hasn't proven that he can CARRY a franchise yet, let alone build a franchise around him. What would have happened if Tracy McGrady was the guy on the Lakers when Shaq came along? Has Kobe ever carried a team all year to a winning record by himself? No. Tracy McGrady did. Shaq carried his to an NBA Finals. Duncan carried his to an NBA TITLE! What has Kobe did to say he is the best player in the league? The defenses concentrate on Shaq, what if they concentrated on Kobe Bryant instead? What if it was Kobe on the Magic instead of McGrady? That's the hallmark of a great player, not just stretches where he's playing with a dominate player and getting good looks. It's scary to think what Michael Jordan would have done if he had Shaq on his team, or an in his prime Hakeem Olajuwon. ------------------ See the three, be the three. [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited May 26, 2001).]
Many fans tend to diminish Kobe's accomplisments while comparing them to Vince's, McGrady's, or Iverson's. They say their numbers are more impressive because they dont have another dominant option like Shaq on their team. They refuse to see the other side of the coin though. They forget that McGrady put up big numbers only after he left Vince. Does Kobe receive fewer double teams than these guys? Yes, but it has more to do with triangle spacing and movement than Shaq's presence. What if Kobe had free reign in an offense. The green light to take it to the hole everytime down the court like Vince, Iverson, McGrady, or Stackhouse. He averaged over 28 ppg during the season and over 32 ppg so far in the playoffs. He's doing all this while deferring to Shaq. Think about it. ------------------
I'm with theFreak and RocketsMillenium. I've said it all season long, Kobe would not be the same player if Shaq was not on the team. NBC doesn't care though. He's already better than Michael in their eyes. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
You guys aren't being fair to Kobe. You act as if he had some choice on which team he could play for, it's not his fault he's on the Lakers, so quit using it against him. McGrady gets tons of run for being a great basketball player so you guys can quit talking as if no one knows how good he really is. Put McGrady on the Lakers and he would be as "overrated" as Kobe is now. Throw Kobe on the Magic and they'd be the 8th seed in the Eastern conference also. Just because you guys hate NBC, doesn't mean you should hate Kobe. He and McGrady are both arrogant jackasses that can back it up on the court. I guess the only way for Kobe to prove himself is if he decides to abandon the dynasty and become "the man" for some bad team in the league. Guess what would happen if Kobe left the Lakers to be "the man" somewhere else, everyone would be calling him a selfish prick for choosing the stats over the team. Kobe's screwed either way so he might as well enjoy winning championships... ------------------ "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
Look we can argue all day about what if's. Kobe Bryant can't help what team he plays on. These were the cards he was dealt and he is making the best of the situation. No one player really carries a team to the finals. It is a team game. You take away David Robinson, do you think Tim Duncan would have ever made it out of the 1st round? Without Kobe last year, do actually believe the Lakers would have won a championship. Without Pippen, Jordan would have been a 2nd round fodder for his entire career. Ya'll can say what ya'll want about Pippen, but he was a great player in his prime. He was good enough to take his Bulls' team in 1994 to the brink of the Conference Finals, posting careers highs in many major categories that year without MJ. Olajuwon doesn't win a 2nd championship without Clyde. Hell he doesn't even win the 1st championship if Winston Garland was still the backup point instead of Sam Cassell. And the point about Tracy McGrady being able to carrying his team to a winning record. Big deal, if you are a true superstar, carrying your team to a winning record is not that big of an accomplishment. You don't think Kobe could do the same. But let's argue the other side of the coin. Kobe proved he can play extraordinary along side a better, more dominant player. Tracy McGrady didn't exactly set the world on fire playing along side Vince Carter. I've loved McGrady's game since his 2nd year in the league. I saw he was going to be a special talent. I was one of the few members on this board advocating for us to trade for McGrady when the Cuttino for McGrady trade rumors were taking place during the before and during the 1999-2000 season. His game has not improved that much over the 5 months between his last game with the Raptors and 1st game with the Magic. He just didn't have the boldness and confidence of a Kobe Bryant to thrive along side a superstar. To thrive along side a superstar like Kobe does with Shaq, Clyde did with Hak, and Magic Johnson did with Kareem requires a special talent. McGrady failed in his attempt to match Vince Carter shining star. I consider Shaq and Kobe, the Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, of basketball. You could argue all day who was the one that really made those 49ers teams' so special. Joe proved his mettle before and after he had Jerry. And Jerry proved it after Joe left. I think given the opportunity Kobe will no doubt prove the same. If Jerry Rice would have played his entire career with Joe Montana, would you hold it against him that he is playing with arguably the greatest quarterback of all time? I wouldn't. I could tell back than that Jerry Rice was the player he was because was that damn good. Just like Kobe. As of right now, I still consider Shaq the best player in the NBA. I'm just saying Kobe is building up a good argument for that distinction. ------------------
Pippen is no Shaq. Michael had help, but not Shaq-like help that Kobe has. I'm not denying that he is a talented player, but I think that these Jordan comparisons would cease if he was forced to face triple teams every time down the court. The following guards/smallforwards are better than Kobe: Iverson McGrady Carter Ray Allen Jordan (if he comes back) The following are, or soon will be on par with Kobe: Spreewell Cassell Francis Mobley Payton Kidd Penny Hardaway (when healthy) None of these players have the same kind of dominant front court help that Kobe has. Ray Allen has his big three, but they do not receive the same kind of attention as Shaq. Carter, McGrady, and Iverson are especially better than Kobe, as they are purely one-man-shows. I will change my opinion if Shaq is injured for a year, and Kobe still puts up the same numbers AND gives the team a winning record. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
The sign of a great player is his ability to succeed despite constant double teams and defensive tactics against him. Since Kobe has never been doubled like a true superstar is, he will never achieve greatness in my eyes. He will just be one hell of a player who was lucky enough to play with the most physically dominating center we've ever seen. We'll see how good Kobe is once Shaq is gone. Honestly, I think he'll be easier to shut down defensively than the other superstars in the league like Iverson, Carter, and even Jerry Stackhouse. All those guys are catch and shoot players, and the ability to shoot over the defense when faced with double teams is vital. IMO Kobe is not a catch and shoot player, he's more of a set shooter from long distance, and thus would not be as successful. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited May 26, 2001).]
Beautiful TPL, beautiful. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
So you guys are holding the Lakers trading for him in the draft against him right? It's his fault he's playing for the Lakers, yes? We all know Steve Francis isn't in the same league as McGrady, Iverson, or Carter because he's got Mobley taking all of the pressure off of him right? Let's be consistent and ignore the obvious dislike of the Lakers... ------------------ "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets. [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 26, 2001).]
No one is blaming Kobe for this, but the fact remains that he has an easy time out there. Mobley doesn't take the pressure off of Steve because he plays in the backcourt as well. It's not like he's a dominant post player. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
Mobley gets all of the double teams. I don't think it's right to automatically count someone out as being a superstar just because of who he's stuck playing with. You can't just disqualify Kobe Bryant from being one of the great players in this league just because of who's on his team. Shaq's got another 8-10 years in him, does that mean we have to wait till Kobe's in his 30's to judge on how great he was? That's total BS, Pippen carried the Bulls for one season just like McGrady did to the Magic for one season. Grant Hill's coming back next season to save McGrady like Jordan came back to save Pippen. I'm not saying Pippen is as good as McGrady, but there's an example on how one player (that few people like) can lead his team into the playoffs. Pippen actually made it to the conference finals with the likes of Bill Wennington and Jason Caffey which is more than what McGrady did this season. Kobe's played like a monster this whole postseason, it's not fair to count him out as one of the best just because he has Shaq on his team. Put Kobe on the Magic, and they'd be the 8th seed in the weak East too, there's no doubt about that. Anyone that questions if he could do what McGrady did is just a Kobe hater. [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 26, 2001).]
There is absolutely no chance of Shaq playing another 8-10 years. Kobe's time to prove himself will come sooner than you think....... ------------------
How much longer do you think he has? He's only 28, it's not like he has any severe competition to bang with down low like Hakeem did. ------------------ Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here...
It's not a question of if he can play for another 8-10 years, it's a question of if he wants to. IMO he'll retire after his 4 year extension is up. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited May 26, 2001).]
I'm starting to wonder if any of you are watching the damn games anymore. Last night, kobe scored an amazing basket on the break over a QUADRUPLE team. Thats FOUR players. The man has been constantly doubled and tripled throughout these playoffs and he's making great passes to open teammates, thus greatly impacting his assists totals. An these aren't all to shaq either. He's finding guys like Derek Fisher and Rick Fox and giving them open threes and lanes to capitalize on. And during game 3 his best moments came during the time the Shaq was actually OUT of the game. The reason you don't see the impact of double teams being run at Kobe as much as, say, Vince Carter, or Tracy Mcgrady is because when he gets the ball he doesn't just stand there staring at his defender before driving or shooting a difficult fadeaway late in the shot clock. He MOVES. When he gets the ball, he knows what he wants to do and he goes for it. Whether its a pull up or a drive, he gets to it quickly. Carter??? When he learns to play defense maybe. But probably not even then. The man is just too slow. No one likes to say it but it's true. His movements are much slower than other guards/small forwards in the league. When you watch him play you can see it's the main reason he shies away from double teams so early. McGrady: I agree that he's a special player and will probably become Kobe's chief rival in years to come. But he just avereaged 33 pts a game on only 41% shooting in the playoffs. And 20% 3pt shoting. His 6.5 rebs and 8+ assists were very nice totals but I see no reason to believe kobe couldn't duplicate thse feats in a similar setting. Remember, this is a guy who averaged 10+ rebounds a game during his brief stint as a small forward a few years back. Iverson: His only problem is size. I think he's a very good, no, great guard. but he's constantly injured from being knocked around by larger players. His 20-40 50 pt, 13-33 30 pt games don't really convince me that he's doing that much more that Kobe would in the same situation and amount of shots. Ray Allen: Is it just me, or does this guy have short arms? I keep seeing him as a little sharp-shooting Kevin Willis. I'm not sure about this comparison as I haven't been able to watch Ray Allen play as much as the others. I do think he could improve his defense a bit though. In his performances against the Rockets Allen dropped only 15 nad 19 points on us (and fouled out of the first game trying to guard Shandon Anderson who scored 25 and 21 in both games against him). Meanwhile Kobe had 15, 29, 45, and 37 in his four games against us. Jordan: I'm not touching this one. Spreewell; Bad offense, average dribbliing ability. Not a particulary good shooter. Doesn't bring it every night. Cassell: Still not that great a defender. Has almost completely lost his 3 pt shot. Hasn't shown a great guard rebounding ability. Really should average a lot more than 7.5 assists in Milwaukee. Francis: Still neds to work on his decision making and scoring ability. Great rebounder though. He's actually better than Kobe in that department. Cuttino: One thing, PASSING. 2 assists a game isn't going to cut it. Payton: I think he shod be in the other category. He's a lot closer to Kobe than the rest of these guys. I would only question his shot selection (low fg%) and attitude. Kobe is a lot more respectful of his coaches and teammates (the latter being a recent development). At least he knows how to find his big men under the goal every once in a while. Kidd: Doesn't have the one on one scoring ability that Kobe does. Also posesses a ragged offensive game which looks polished only every so often. He's a bit overrated defensively too. (just ast stevie) Hardaway: You're joking right? Even when he was healthy and playing with Shaq the best he could muster was 21 points a game. His 7 assists and 5 rebounds were good additions to a great overall game. But I don't doubt Kobe can do better. With or without Shaq. I've never been a big Kobe Bryant or Laker fan (ugh!). I just think he's not getting a fair shake on this bbs. ------------------ The season's over, but the 'Stros have started. Guess I'm still gonna be nursing that keg...
