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Shortsightedness will lead to downfall

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BallaDoc, May 29, 2023.

  1. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    With all the smoke about Harden, trading for established stars, and spending cap out there I find myself severely questioning the vision of our front office.

    TF has never earned any favors with me. I have always held his feet to the fire with making cheap decisions when he got here. From refusing to include salaries on incoming trades and attaching draft capital to dump salary, he should not have any support from Rockets fans.

    The organizations decision to bottom out while correct seemed executed in half baked fashion. While we had a brain drain we didnt see hires to beef up our development and scouting departments. There wasn’t really a lot of smoke about creating an environment for development. This culminated in Stephen Silas letting the kids run loose with no structure.

    Without establishing any culture for the last three years we now want to fast forward the rebuild because our bill is due to OKC. This is a pretty asinine move IMO. Because quite frankly even if we suck the draft next year is awful. Losing a pick to OKC in that draft year will not hurt nearly as much when the prospects are the weakest in awhile. I’m addition we have BKN picks to offset ours.

    In addition to valuing the owed picks too much (which we’re forcibly given to OKc by TF per reports) we are now sacrificing the development of the youth. Two timelines does not work. It didn’t work in GSW, PDX, ToR. It only worked maybe in SA and that’s cause they had a structure and Kawhi was the only one being incorporated. To win you need alignment of vision in your organization. Two timelines means two teams pulling in different directions.

    lastly to use up cap space on established stars is very foolish when the new CBA is coming. There are significant, punitive restrictions in roster building. It doesn’t make sense to commit 90 million on “stars” on the decline and when their cap is up spend that money in extensions on the young guys. You’re locking up your salary structure before the new NBA is established. Keep the powder dry and maintain flexibility while you see what the optimal roster building will be.

    in short going for two timelines shows organizational disalignment and propagates our dysfunctional reputation.
     
    Der Rabbi, Easy, aelliott and 18 others like this.
  2. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    Honestly we just have to see what they do this offseason and then critique from there. It’s all speculation at this point.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Nah, Tillman knows what he is doing more than likely we have our alpha on the team already, and we have 3 very good all star developing players to support that - just need to let the core 4 develop.

    DD
     
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  4. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Preemptive criticism lol what's next?
     
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  5. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    i was with ya for about half the ride... lol!

    im hopin hard-on is just gettin some press...with no real intent on dishing a 4 year deal - that would just be beyond stupid... lol
    tilly sux - agreed... but he managed to stay outta the way of late - so maybe he learnt sumptin... lol
    bottom out correct - check....
    silas sucked, kids amuck - check...
    failed to build a culture - check...

    then ya lost me....

    Why do folks have this belief of 'timelines' and 'who fits the timeline...'
    yeh... u can have a young team... yer not gonna sign vets to 1 year contracts to 'make a run...' lol...
    but u build a team... that team needs players at various intervals in their careers... vets to lead the kids, kids to keep the vets hoppin... its a mix... a synergy... the whole worth more than the sum of the parts...
    but folks seem to think they're just gonna grab a buncha youngsters with potential, treat em like a farm league for a couple years until everybody starts to pop simultaneously.... and then u fill in the missing pieces to a championship... trust the process! ...lol ..smdh...

    and we did the time...
    we stockpiled a few high draft picks...
    now the org needs to go make chit work!
    They better go spend that cap $ on some established talent to balance out this roster - and try to find some identity beyond 'the head honcho'... lol
    and no, i aint waitin for that identity to some via some 19 year old kid!
    lol
     
  6. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Draft Amen Thompson and build around him, in a few years The Rockets will be in the Finals...
     
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  7. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    Man udoka alone is good for at least 30 wins with this roster. Coaching and development really matters. The west ain’t even that good for us to be this bad. This roster is no less talented than those Mobley/Francis rockets and they were competitive in an even tougher western conference. The goal should be to keep developing while trying to compete. Udoka said it best, youth is not an excuse. It wasn’t for cleveland(last year), okc or Orlando. I don’t even care about the pick OKC getting from us next season. That’s shouldn’t dictate anything we do for the betterment of our team
     
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  8. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    I agree with the OP. TF has a very bad track record since taking over the team. I do give him credit for stepping back and letting Stone work the last 3 years, but now he’s clearly stepping in and imposing a win-now approach. I can’t blame him for being dissatisfied with the last 3 years, but he needs to have the patience to see this through. We need sustainable growth, not a quick fix to get on the mediocrity treadmill. Add good vets, yes! But don’t give 4-yr deals to guys in the twilight of their careers for big money. And don’t trade away a chance to draft a real franchise player, which I’m pretty sure we don’t have on the roster yet. Let’s see what Stone does. I’m definitely out on a reprise of Harden, only fatter.

    another way to put it: don’t do what DD is selling ;)
     
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  9. Landry's Tooth

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    We had the oldest team, were capped out, and weren't winning.

    I'm thrilled with the quick turnaround.

    Signing guys like Ariza or Anderson to sit on the bench and get a paycheck would be foolish.

    The problems started under Les and Morey.

    The cap space is there for improvement. The younger guys are more likely to develop with stars next to them to take pressure off of them.

    Waiting until Green is due for an extension to try to win is pointless. The idea is you use the space and then resign guys to go over the cap.

    Waiting and using the space on extensions is a waste. If you're saying wait 1 or 2 years then you're not allowed to call TF cheap.

    Especially since TF has spent a larger portion of the cap then Les and has deeper pockets. That was by a healthy margin until the tank job started.

    Go back and check the numbers. Spotract has them.
     
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  10. Landry's Tooth

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    How about you wait before you attack him for something he hasn't done. If big money to Harden comes with a trade for a young player better than Harden I think it's excusable... the key is making Harden's deal come off before the big extensions would come.
     
    BallaDoc likes this.
  11. Ankara1923

    Ankara1923 Member

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    Another U-turn.
     
  12. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    to be clear, I’m not “attacking” anyone and I said let’s see what Stone does. But the idea of trading out of this draft and signing guys like Harden does not fill me with optimism. Stone still has to prove he can actually build a roster.
     
  13. Landry's Tooth

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    Also, adding proven players reduces risk on the young guys. The odds are maybe 50/50 we have one allstar between Sengun, Green, Porter, and Jabari.

    Adding 2 knowns and keeping a couple potential stars is the highest probability for maximizing upside versus rolling dice on a bunch of young guys. Ask the Kings, Hornets, and Wolves how long that process takes...
     
    BallaDoc likes this.
  14. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    Signing players at the twilight of their career is something the Knicks do to sell tickets at the Garden.
    Do we really have franchise players on the team though? I'm giving Jabari more time since last year was his rookie season and Big Men take longer to develop. Sengun looks decent but it is yet to be determined if his lack of foot speed on the defensive end will be the diff between being an all time great or just a pretty good player. There are moves that def need to happen just not the ones that involve us overpaying for an aging star just to put seats in the stadium.
     
  15. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    If harden comes he comes, u can then decide if u still want to continue btching when he plays for our team.

    We are already at bottom and folks worrying about downfall.
     
  16. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    fair point I’m criticizing the FA based on speculation. Better to see what they actually do than have the pitchforks
     
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  17. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    My concern though is if we tie up all of our cap space on “stars” when the new CBA hits we won’t be able to pay everyone. I’d rather use the cap space on positive contracts, young vets, and accumulating assets and seeing how the CBA plays out. Just as an example. The new CBA makes it very difficult to roster build with middling salaries in the future due to the semi hard cap. I’d rather maintain flexibility and pay out to guys who show they’re clear number ones than tie up space to people were not sure on.
     
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  18. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    I’m not arguing about timeline. I’m saying the new CBA is very restrictive. Once you have your guys and pay them the cap. That will be it. Getting role players and such will be much harder with these new measures coming out. I’m arguing maintain your flexibility for a couple more years to wade the water. With how harsh the penalties are you might be able to scoop up guys like Kuminga, Poole, Thompson, Green, Brown, BroLo, RobWill. The high salary teams will be hurting soon and if you maintain flexibility you could poach
     
  19. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    Idols was the kind of guy and culture setter we should’ve had in year 2 of rebuild. Eat the cost I still good habits and see how players develop. Now we’re year 3 of jalen and we have no idea who is what and what role anyone has on a winning team.
     
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  20. BallaDoc

    BallaDoc Member

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    TF stepped back it was great that he did. But it was done half assed. Yes bottom out but develop a culture. Develop good habits. Instill a winning environment. Were we paying for top end talents like Schulz to lead our scouting department like Portland did. Did we sign chip england to take over shooting drills like OKC did. No we did not. We bottomed out, we’re cheap, and TF likely recouped his investment with low operating costs.
     
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