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Who are you taking with the 4th pick?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Houston77, May 16, 2023.

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Who are you taking?

  1. Amen Thompson

    148 vote(s)
    43.5%
  2. Jarace Walker

    34 vote(s)
    10.0%
  3. Ausar Thompson

    6 vote(s)
    1.8%
  4. Cam Whitmore

    37 vote(s)
    10.9%
  5. Trade the pick

    101 vote(s)
    29.7%
  6. Other (Specify)

    14 vote(s)
    4.1%
  1. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Amen clearly the correct choice but he’s going to rise. I think Miller will be the pick at 4.
     
    ArtV, amaru, cheke64 and 1 other person like this.
  2. yixiixiy

    yixiixiy Member

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    Heard a dude in here has Lively at #2 on his very personal board. Ngl that made my day.
     
  3. rfrocket

    rfrocket Member

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    Here's the thing.
    We can't be sure just how high he'll go because the "experts" draft boards don't always match the NBA teams' boards.
    NBAdraft.net had Black at #4 in their mock for awhile although they just changed it to Amen at #4 and put Black at #6.
    But they have Black AHEAD of both the Thompson twins on their big board at #5 (Big 3, Taylor Jenkins, then Black then TT (Thompson twins).
    Kevin O'Connor of the Ringer has him at #6 on his big board just behind the Big 3 and the TT.

    So the question becomes if he's the guy you really want just how far can you trade down and BE SURE of getting him.
    Even going to #6 I wouldn't be 100% sure of him being there.
    Going back to last year the Worriers thought for sure they'd be able to get Giddey at #7 but weren't so Giddey when OKC scooped him up 1 pick before.
    MUCH higher than people thought he'd go!


    As for bulking up I've already stated he's bigger than people realize.
    He's listed at 195 lbs but he weighed in at the NBA combine at 210 and has a vertical jump of 39"!
    And being only 19 and looking a little soft-ish once he gets in an NBA training program he'll only become more dynamic!

    I just REALLY like his game from what I've seen.
    He not only makes the WOW plays but also make the smart plays on offense and defense.


    Here's a couple of quotes from his coach, ex NBA coach Eric Musselman.

    "Incredible person, a leader. Very, very, very coachable... He is high, high, high basketball IQ," Musselman said. "He sees two or three plays ahead of time. He can give adjustment suggestions in huddles. To me, he’s kind of a no-brainer for the next level because he’s just got so much upside."

    "Really good defender, great anticipation defensively. Rebounds as well as any point guard in the entire draft. Body is ready to play in an NBA game right now."


    https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...elman-provides-insight-prospect-anthony-black



    Pre-injury S. Livigston's a pretty good comp but I think he has even more potential.
    I consider him like a Josh Giddey with MUCH better defense and a chance to have better offense as well!
    Because he always seems to play under control like Giddey does.

    He's moved ahead of Amen for my choice at #4.
     
    Y2JT, jch1911 and robbie380 like this.
  4. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    When the Rockets went with Green over Mobley, I at least knew Jalen's fist step was so good that he had an easy path to NBA Stardom as long as he kept refining his game.

    When they fell to three and got Jabari, my least favorite of the top 3 last year, I couldn't get mad at the pick because he was the consensus BPA.

    This year at #4, the league really bent us over. Provided the top 3 goes as expected, #4 is either betting the house that a supreme athlete with a broken jumper becomes Lamar Odom 2.0 instead of MKG part 2, or taking a number of also flawed players, most of which can't hit free throws at a clip over 70%.

    Amen easily has the highest ceiling in this draft, but man if he doesn't scream "bust" if that jumper isn't fixed. My gut is that if you think he's BPA at 4, and most likely to turn into a franchise player, you pull the trigger and hope that cylinder is empty, and lock Amen in a gym until he makes 10,000 threes.
     
    Drift Monkey and amaru like this.
  5. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

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    Agree 100% on putting him ahead of Amen.
     
  6. i3artow i3aller

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    What's the argument for drafting Anthony Black over Amen Thompson?

    Both are supersized PGs that can't shoot well. They're the same height and both bring a defensive presence, but Amen is the vastly superior athlete w/ the much longer wingspan. Thompson also clocks as the better playmaker so I'm wondering what I'm missing here with AB? Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Anthony Black. I just struggle to envision a scenario where I'd draft him over Amen Thompson. It's not as if Amen is slow to make reads so what am I not seeing?
     
    BaselineFade, cbass, OremLK and 3 others like this.
  7. rfrocket

    rfrocket Member

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    I understand what you're saying/asking.
    For me I'm just really sold on Black's BBIQ, whether on offense or defense.
    I just see a lot of little smart moves Black makes whether on or off ball that I think will lead to winning once he hits the NBA.
    I don't know what you mean by "better" playmaker but I've seen multiple people say not to confuse Black's raw assist numbers with his ability as Arkansas' offense had horrid spacing as well as multiple injuries this year and Black manufactured a lot of their shots.
    I think Black's "vision" is up there with anyones!

    I know Amen has good/great vision and passing ability as well.
    I would liken his passing to a James Harden type of game which is an excellent skill but Anthony Black reminds me of more of a Chris Paul type of lead guard.
    I'm not saying Amen doesn't have that in his bag.
    Maybe he does, but I know I've seen it in Black's game.


    And though Amen is more athletic I'm not sure how big the final gap will be.
    Black is 1.25 years younger than Amen and you can see his body has a little "Harden" look to it. lol
    But he's up to 210 lbs and has a 39" vertical at that weight AND STILL has room to improve physically imo once he hits an NBA training program.
    I think Amen's MUCH closer to his physical peak than Black is right now.

    I even listen to their respective coaches talking about their games.
    Amen's coach when asked about his position said he was "more of a lead guard than Ausar".
    I heard him rave about Amen, but it was that he routinely would do something insane "physically" on a drive to the basket.
    Black's coach raved about his BBIQ, using THREE very's two different times (very, very, very high!).
    Said he saw plays 2 or 3 passes ahead, kinda like a chess player and would routinely suggest adjustments to make in the huddle.


    I know everyone says we need an infusion of shooting the most but I think we need an infusion of BBIQ more than anything!
    Alpe's WAY up high with his and everyone else on the team is below average at best!
    And I'm sold on Black's BBIQ.

    And maybe Amen's BBIQ is just as high as AB's.
    I know it seems very good from what I can tell.
    He may turn into a cross between Westbrook and Chris Paul.
    If you could put Chris Paul's brain in Westbrook's body I'd take that in a heartbeat even with RW's bad outside shooting!


    I won't complain with either one of them.

    I wonder if we could get both of them to come to Houston on a pre-draft visit and scrimmage against each other.
    Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall for that one!
    And I'm being facetious because their agents would NEVER let them do that.
     
    peleincubus and Ancient Moabite like this.
  8. i3artow i3aller

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    The problem is that there is a very very very big athletic gap between the two. Amen lands in the NBA as a top 3-5 athlete. I don't think many people fully understand that. That's an incredible advantage to have over one's competitors. Yes Anthony's vertical pop at the combine was impressive, but AB even at the peak of his athletic powers will still never be in the same realm of athlete as Thompson is now. I'm also not sold on this idea that AB has so much untapped athleticism left whereas Amen has seemingly capped out?! Both stand a chance to get markedly better w/ NBA training programs so that math doesn't add up.

    Then there's Amen's first, second and third step which are all elite. People are going to be very very very surprised at just how quickly this kid carves up space. Amen Thompson is a Tesla running around on ludicrous mode, and yet he's not merely some line drive straight speed type. This cat has freakish lateral quickness, declaration ability and hip fluidity rarely seen in humans.

    AB's BBIQ is undeniable, but Amen Thompson seems every bit as cerebral. He's the best passer in the draft for a reason.
     
    BaselineFade and OremLK like this.
  9. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    Yeah, Anthony Black would make sense if they want to trade back for some reason, or perhaps if they pick Brandon Miller and trade back up into the top 10 vicinity using the Clippers pick and other assets. There's a real possibility he's still available at, for example, the Dallas pick (#10).

    I don't think there's any reason to draft him at #4. And I say that as somebody who likes Black as a prospect.
     
    sydmill, jch1911 and i3artow i3aller like this.
  10. rfrocket

    rfrocket Member

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    I never said that Black had "so much untapped athleticism" while Amen has none!
    Just that all you have to do is look at their respective bodies and see that Black has a little baby fat on him while Amen looks to have VERY little body fat already and is really muscular.
    I NEVER put limits on players, either physically or skill-wise because anyone can improve with hard work.
    Just that it's pretty obvious that Amen is much more athletically
    advanced and Black at more than 1 year younger has obvious room where he can improve and narrow the gap somewhat.
    NO math problem at all.

    I disagree that he's the "best" passer in the draft as
    that's such a subjective term. As I said earlier "most prolific" doesn't always mean "better"!



    You don't/can't know that.
    The majority of the main draft sites have the big 3 followed by the Thompson twins and then Black, Whitmore, and Jarace in some order with some sites adding Taylor Jenkins in.
    So it's a "big 8" or possibly 9 if you add Jenkins in.
    But not in any definitive order yet!

    I've ALREADY said that NBAdraft.net had Black ahead in their mock draft until yesterday and KOC of the Ringer STILL has Black ahead of both Thompson twins on his big board so it's not like this is some extreme outlier opinion!

    We'll see how this shakes out as time goes on but at this point NO ONE can say they know for sure what the selection order will be for the players.

    As for me I've already stated that Amen was my guy for #4 and Black is now but it's close.
    I won't complain with either one.
     
    OremLK likes this.
  11. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    The difference for me is I really view Black as a tier down. It's fair to have a different opinion, and I agree it's not an extreme outlier. Black is more consistent on both ends and is a bit younger. I think he has a better handle on change-of-pace, navigating the pick-and-roll, things like that. I think Amen has the edge on court vision and on the actual passing tool (physically, I mean--strength and accuracy).

    I just really value the extreme upside with Amen due to his all-world athleticism, and I think the basketball IQ is close between the two players.

    The other thing is, I also have Cason Wallace in the same tier as Black. I go back and forth between Wallace and Black as the third best point guard/combo guard in this draft class. Cason is more likely to be a good shooter and I think he has the edge defensively, while Black is stronger on playmaking and all-around offensive skills. So if, for example, the Rockets were to pick Brandon Miller and also make a trade for the #10 pick, I wouldn't be upset whether we landed Black or Wallace there, and I bet one of the two will be available.
     
    i3artow i3aller likes this.
  12. i3artow i3aller

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    Do you happen to know how many times Coach K used the word "very" in a sentence when coming up with compliments for Cason? Cause apparently that matters :D.
     
    OremLK likes this.
  13. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    already watched maybe 6 youtube highlight videos on this amen kid and have yet to see even one play showcasing the elite athleticism people here keep referencing. can someone please post an example
     
  14. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    My man if you watched that many videos of him and you can't see it I don't think anyone can help you. His first/second/last step are clearly incredibly explosive and his head is regularly at rim level when he dunks. He has excellent body control and lateral agility, and his leaping ability is effortless, often off one foot. Fair to have questions about the shooting and level of competition but nobody denies he's incredibly athletic.
     
  15. maj21

    maj21 Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. I see great athleticism, but everyone keeps saying he would be a 99th percentile athlete day one. I also don’t see this crazy potential
     
    pippendagimp likes this.
  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    i don't deny he's incredibly athletic, i am questioning why so many posters claim he'll be one of THE MOST athletic players in the league on opening night. from all the clips i've seen he's no where close to jalen's athleticism and even a level below scoot henderson
     
  17. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Yes, all I see are fast breaks and for some strange reason the defense
    parting of the way like Moses and the the Red Sea. The defenders were atrocious.

    Game film shows a greater perspective on Amen. His highlights are more
    fluff than substance.
     
    pippendagimp likes this.
  18. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    I agree, his game film is not that impressive. It will be interesting to see if Amen drops when the FO’s get serious in their evaluations. Media has created a lot of false narratives about players the last few years (see Cade, Banchero, and Chet).
     
    ApacheWarrior likes this.
  19. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    A few months ago a play stuck out to me where he got the rebound then had a solo fast break to the other end. He did it about as fast as I have ever seen a person do it. I’ll find it later if I can.

    Actually I think it was posted in the nba draft section here in a thread for amen.
     
    pippendagimp likes this.
  20. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Neither Black nor Wallace were the best PG on their college team. This does give me a pause, if their project NBA position is PG.

    Of the two, I prefer Wallace, since I am see Wallace as an elite defensive player and a better shot than Black. I think that both will likely have good NBA careers.

    If the Rockets trade 1.4 and 1.20 for Orlando's 1.6 and 1.11, Black should be available at 1.6 and Wallace should be available at 1.11.
     

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