Does anyone really think Jacka_ _ is a Great coach?

It's obvious I, nor anybody else, will be able to change your opinion of Phil..

However the facts are that before Phil Jordan had ZERO championships. Before Phil Shaq and Kobe had ZERO championships.

Obviously, I have a differing view of what a GREAT coach should do. It's not taking a bad team to mediocrity...it's taking a good team to the next level. The Lakers are poised to sweep the playoffs, and people wonder if Phil is a great coach?? Just look at the rings on his fingers..

If you're arguing that Phil has superior talent, I can't really argue that for Shaq and Kobe..as that tandem is simply amazing. However, you must also realize that Phil is getting inordinate amounts of support from crapshoot players like Brian Shaw, Fisher, and Fox.

Also, if you've been watching the playoffs, you'd realize the subtle coaching changes Phil brought especially against the Spurs. An example being the blind side double team against Duncan...which seriously affected his game.

 

Phil is nowheres near as good a coach as he gets credit for being. With Chicago he had the greatest player of all time, with LA he has perhaps the best inside-outside combination of all time, for Gods sake, I could win championships with these squads.

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I think Phil gets more credit than he's due. He coaches great teams to championships -- it's that simple. He's never stayed with a team that was rebuilding, or coached a team that had little talent. He's always been on the best teams in the league.

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

How about if you take an average or above-average team to the ultimate level? Does that make that coach even better? I can't give Phil credit unless he can take an average team or a losing team somewhere. He's got Shaq and a maturing Kobe (which makes a lot of difference). Probably the 2 best players in the league right now. He had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Possibly one of the 2 greatest players ever, the greatest sidekick, and the greatest rebounder of the time.

As for getting a lot from "ordinary" players. For the first championship Rudy had Hakeem and O.T. (wee) and a bunch of no-names. All Phil has are 2 of the 3 or 4 best players in the game today. Poor Phil.

Popovich had Duncan, an aging Robinson and a bunch of "ordinary" players.

He's overrated until proven otherwise.

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

[This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

I think Red Auerbach is the greatest coach, if you want to go by rings. But I am most impressed by Rudy T. and Larry Brown. These guys have taken teams with one great player and a bunch of role players to the mountain top. Well not Larry Brown yet, but the Sixers improvement is undeniable.

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Liberals favor using artificial means to alter the normal to a state which facilitates and justifies how irresponsible they want to be

 

I definitely think that Rudy is a better coach than Jackson. Jackson inherited Bulls and Lakers teams that had been playoff contenders for years and turned them into champions. Rudy inherited a team that was under .500 over halfway through the year and hadn't won a playoff series in like 6 years and turned them into champions.

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Phill is a good coach, but not a great one.

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ZRB, I agree whole-heartedly. Phil Jackson has never and now that he can pick and choose, will probably never go into a situation where he has to build a team from the ground up.

Phil goes into teams stacked with talent, and he is good at getting those teams to fulfill their expectations. He's not a great coach, but he's a good one.

Rudy, not only had a team stacked with talen in the championship years, he consistantly gets the most out of players that other teams haven't been able to.

Look at these players under Rudy: Mario Ellie, Moochie Norris, Robert Horry, Charles Jones, Chucky Brown, Otis Thorpe...

The list goes on. Also Phil uses the triangel offense everywhere he goes. Rudy has totally restructured his offense. Rudy has gone from a championship team to a rebuilding team, and loves the challenge. He never once complained about it. IMO Rudy is a better coach than Phil

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Good point.

 

Devil's advocate would say :

So what? If something works wherever you go for the players you have, why change it?

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

 

DoD,
I understand, about not changing it, and if like Jasckson you go to talent layden teams you won't have to. But I think being flexible enough and being a good enough coach to install and win with two totally different systems says something about the coach, and his ability.

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If you are objetive about the matter, Rudy has to win another title or 2 before it is reasonable for him to be in Jackson's class as a coach. Don't forget Rudy had the best center to lace up sneakers in the last 20 years play for him every year he has coached the Rockets. Despite what Jordan fans may say, in his heyday Hakeem was almost as good of a total player as Jordon was. Rudy also had 2-3 other Hall of Famers many of those years, often with 3 on the same team, and many other good role players went to and from the Rockets. The difference was Jackson more consistently got his spare parts to work long enough to bring home rings and got his players to always play like a team even if they didn't like each other, where we waddled in inconsistency and could never even bring home the best record in the West.

In short, ya'll are way underestimating Jackson's ability to get players on the same page-something Rudy has done sometimes, but not nearly as consistently as Jakcson. Think about the egos he has dealt with (Pippen, Rodman, MJ, Kobe, Shaq). Nobody else got consistent production out of Pippen or Rodman in the 90's nor did anyone keep Shaq and Kobe on the same page. If you don't give him some credit for his teams' consistent successes you have your blinders on. Yes he has sought out talent, but talent no one else harnessed like he was able to. That is my most important criteria for being a "great coach". If I had a virtual all-star ladened team and my livehood depended on its continued success, Jackson would be my captain.

Few people fault players for wanting to be around other better players versus worse players if they have the choice. Likewsie, if top flight CEOs go to top flight companies with modest flaws and get them to perform better, they are smart and rich. I don't know why you would penalize a coach for doing the same.

Finally, just so you realize I am not anti-Rudy, I do think he has proved himself to be one of the better coaches in the game today, and I like him as the captain of the current Rockets team.

 

From what I've seen of Jackson, he is a good coach - just not the mystical, all-knowing, philosophical, transcendental "basketball guru" the media gives him credit for. To be honest, I have a great deal more respect for Rudy T. He was there for the rise and fall of the Rockets and now actually savors the idea of rebuilding the team - piece by piece - from the rubble into a championship force. To me that's alot more praiseworthy than Jackson jumping from one championship team to another on the brink of it.

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"I didn't like jr. high when I was there. Why would I want to watch it on tv?" P. Mesku's opinion about "Survivor"

 

I think Rudy T is better at the X and Os, the theory of basketball. He knows how to utilize his talent into a system of play that will work. What Jackson does is get players to believe in him and in his system. Both are great coaches, but they have differing styles and agendas.

I think I prefer Rudy over Phil because we all know Rudy is loyal to our team and demands team loyalty from his players as well. Phil demands loyalty more directed to himself and his way of doing things and it is on this point that I think Phil really pisses people off.

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Phil Jackson will leave L.A. as soon as they start losing. I guaranty that if L.A. doesn't win the title over the next few years with the exception of this year, he'll leave as soon as his contract is over.

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