Baseball Trade Deadline Passes...Big Unit Still a Diamondback, Nomar Going to Cubs

Doug Mientkiewicz has good plate discipline and draws some walks... his career BA is better than 0.250.

Look... Millar and Ortiz are some of the worst 1Bs in the league (not even due to lack of effort, just lack of skill), that makes Bellhorn more error prone because he has to make up some of the ground. Nomar as I've already said is not playing good D. Here you play Mientkiewicz at 1B most of the time, DH Ortiz most of the time, and put Millar in OF or DH. The OF stilll stinks... but at least the IF is better.

Look... the Red Sox have been playing .500 ball for months. They are going NOWHERE with that shoddy defense. The pitching is not as dominant to the point where you can get away with a defense that bad. Pedro and Shillings ERAs are up, and part of that is due to the bad D (and partly due to the fact that Pedro is a bit washed up). D. Lowe's numbers are bad because he, like E. Loaiza, is just NOT a 20 win pitcher. But he's not THAT bad... sinkerballers need defense and he had the worst in the league.

I have no illusions of the Red Sox taking it to the next level and overtaking the Yankees with this trade. But you need to address your biggest concern at the time and give your club a chance to make the playoffs. And the club with Nomar was NOT going to win... they have been playing .500 ball for months... the defense is not good enough for them to win. This gives them a better chance. And it also avoids losing Nomar for nothing.

Again having a consistent fourth starter would be great, and a better OF defender would be a plus too. But right now they took a step in the right direction. It's sad to lose Nomar who is an icon here in Boston... but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Again, the new players aren't great, but right now the primary concern is defense which is costing us games. The current team isn't going to win so you have to do something. And trading Nomar before he walks makes sense. Not a great trade, but you gotta do it.

As per the relief pitching. The Red Sox have a great bullpen actually. The problem is that Williamson, the 2nd best reliever and a guy that can come in and close games at times... has been injured. That makes Embree, and Timlin overworked and exposed.

Williamson-Timlin-Embree-Foulke... is not worse than

Kline-King-Kalero-Eldred-Isringhausen

Although... now let me get to my other point. The Cardinals are actuall MY team too. Lived in Boston the past 4 years but I grew up in Missouri.

No doubt the Cards bullpen has been stellar this year. Kline has always been good. But Ray King... great pickup. Calero is playing well, as is Tavarez. Eldred is Eldred... not the worst. And Isringhausen hasn't allowed a run in 2 months or something. But I mean they're just in a winning groove... these people aren't THAT good... trust me I know.

Edmonds... haha... who's better? Jim Edmonds or Barry Bonds? You tell me. Always been one of my favorite players, glad he's doing well.

I mean I agree with you about the Cardinals... they're doing everything right... they lost tonight but almost came back from a 8 run deficit. Edmonds is on a superhuman tear... the thing about that lineup is eventually Edmonds will go into slump mode as he always does... but Pujols and Rolen won't slump at the same time. Renteria is hitting again (silver slugger last year). I like Womack at 2B... Mabry is playing well... Matheny is weak hitting but delivers the clutch hits... Cedeno has found new life (I call this the "coming-to-the-cards-rejuvenation" -- look up Edmonds, Rolen, and Woody Williams stats before and after St. L). There are no holes in the lineup or defense. And that's made a mediocre staff seem really good. I mean I have no delusions about how good J. Marquis and C. Carpenter are.

Which brings me to a reply for Nick:

Yes I agree with you the Cards don't have good starters. Remember when Matt Morris was supposed to be a perennials Cy Young candidate? I do... it was him and Roy Oswalt. Sigh....

The rotation isn't great... but I disagree with you that you need a dominating pitcher or two to win. You're thinking 2001 diamondbacks. Yes that's one way to do it. But look at the Marlins last year -- Pavano, Willis (got rocked), Penny, Beckett.

Make no mistake... that's better than what the Cards have now. But last year Pavano and Penny were 4.00+ ERA I believe, and Beckett might have been their best pitcher... that's not really all that "scary" to me.

The Marlins won because they play good D and MANUFACTURE runs. The Cards do that... even better.

In the end yea... the starting pitching might not hold up. But the Cardinals shouldn't be discounted. They are playing as a unit and have a good forumla in place.

Morris and Marquis, by the way... are not our supposed aces. There is no ace. In the playoffs I would imagine the most reliable pitcher would be Williams (outdueled Randy Johnson in the NLCS 2001, if you remember) and Carpenter. Morris will have to step up. If he does, the Cards have a shot.

 

On the broadcast of the Giants-Cards game tonight, they said they asked Will Clark (who works in the STL organization) who they should have in the playoff rotation... and he left out Morris... and this was BEFORE tonight, when he got shelled for 8 runs in 2/3 of an inning, and didn't even make it out of the first (and that's the second time in the last 3 games that this has happened).

Yea, I have no idea what the hell happened to Morris... he must feel like an idiot for not signing that huge extension in the offseason, trying to hold out for more money... yea, good luck with that now. He would be 0-17 if he pitched for a team like Arizona or Montreal.

I've heard the comparison with last year's Marlins...and actually, a better example would have been the 2002 Angels... but I'm not supposed to make good points for you...

Carpenter and Marquis are literally wild cards, because one is coming off a 2-year injury, and the other has never pitched an entire season... and both have had moments this season where they've looked just as bad as they were good.

Woody's best years are behind him, and he can be serviceble... but still, he'd be overmatched in any matchup of another playoff team's #3 pitcher.

Jeff Suppan is the #4 guy... he's a Dave Milcki with better control.

Also... just look at the teams that have beaten the Cards in the playoffs these previous years, and notice the common trend:
2002 - Schmidt/Ortiz on Giants
2001 - Schilling/Johnson on D'backs
2000 - Leiter/Hampton on Mets

All studs... and they all dominated when it counted. I don't really see anybody on the Cards being able to be THE MAN.

I'm not discounting them, because they're going to make the playoffs, and they'll have a VERY good record as well. I'm just saying that the very good record will end up being an abberation, because of this team's starting pitching downfalls.

 

^^ I guess that point was okay... but...

where are the dominant staffs today? Cubs? supposedly Astros?

Those guys aren't gonna make the playoffs.

Of the playoffs teams in the NL... I'm only afraid of the Braves, not because they have a good staff... but because somewhere deep in my heart I will never forget that reverse sweep NLCS in 1996.

 

Yea... that 96 series was ridiculous. Atlanta was on fire those 3 games. (then, they took it to N.Y. those first two games, and should have coasted to a World Series... but in the end, THEY choked).

As for NL pitching staffs, you make a good point that there's no dominant staff... but there's still some exceptions amongst the playoff hopefulls:

Cubs - could/should still easily grab the wild card (they're only 2 games out), and guys like Clement and Zambrano could carry them alone (even though they'll probably have a full-strength Wood and Prior by then).

Giants - still have Schmidt throwing lights out. Also, Jerome Williams is solid. They also seem to have STL's number, but they also have the weakest bullpen of the contenders.

Dodgers - Their super-duper bullpen was supposed to make up for their OK starting rotation, but they decided to throw Mota away for Penny (in the real hopes of getting Johnson). It actually bit them today, with Dreifort giving up 2 runs in the 9th.

Marlins - Beckett will be throwing full strength again, Pavano's a stud, Willis has improved after teams caught on to him... and now they have a bullpen of Mota-Benitez... VERY good.

IMO, the playoffs will end up being Cards, Cubs, Marlins, Dodgers/Giants... and it could very well be another Cubs-Marlins NLCS.... who would think that it could become an all-time rivalry!

 

Easily.

But the Cards could just as easily destroy the Marlins, Dodgers, and we know they can beat the Cubs.

If you had to pick one out of those four now to save your life... I would pick the Cards. What about you?

you're right though... why aren't the Cubs any better?

Their 5 pitchers are better than any or the Cards pitchers. Lee, A. Ramirez, Alou, Sosa... now Nomar...

Sheesh... on paper they're so much better than the Cardinals.

But yeah... the Cards right now are as good as I've every remember them. Probably not a Championship team... but still, they're all good guys and it's fun to root for them.

 

The Cards have played head-and-shoulders above the entire league for the last 2 1/2 months... to do that in baseball, is quite impressive.

But, for some reason, I just think they peaked too soon... like the 2001 Mariners did. While the offense is right now running on all cylinders, the starting pitching has been mediocre since the break.

If the Marlins got into the post-season, I couldn't bet against them... especially now that they've got a stud in Lo Duca. I would tend to say Cubs (because they do look damn good on paper, and they actually haven't played that bad... its just that the Cards have played that good)... but then again, you can't quite put a curse on paper either .

 

Nomar will be missed but he was traded because:

1) He was unhappy and was bringing down the entire clubhouse.
2) There was no way he would re-sign with the Sox.
3) He was planning on returning to the DL so he would be ready to play in September.

This was a necessary move for the Red Sox.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/08/01/in_short_it_was_time_for_him_to_go/

In short, it was time for him to go
By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | August 1, 2004

Thank the baseball god, he's gone. We no longer have to watch Nomar Garciaparra pretend that he cares about the fortunes of the Boston Red Sox.

This is a strange story. No one ever played harder, or gave more, to the Boston Red Sox and the citizens of Red Sox Nation than Nomar Garciaparra. He was probably the most popular Sox player since Ted Williams, and rightfully so; no player was more worthy of your applause. But at the same time, no player polluted the clubhouse more than Nomar, and in the end, he was the ultimate non-team guy.

He had to go. He was more miserable than any athlete I have ever seen. In the Sox clubhouse, he was as happy as Michael Moore at a Bush family reunion.

His misery dates back to before this season. After the Sox beat the Oakland A's in the fourth game of the 2003 Division Series, the Sox boarded the team bus for the first leg of their journey back to Oakland for the series finale. Everyone was buoyant and gripped with the prospect of going to Oakland and winning Game 5 . . . everyone except for the star shortstop. He got on the bus, turned toward the excited throng, and said, "Why is everyone so happy? As soon as we lose, everyone's just going to rip us."

That was Nomar. The ultimate downer. The wonderful talent who hated playing in a place where people cared too much.

In the end, general manager Theo Epstein talked about upgrading the Red Sox defense and CEO Larry Lucchino talked about getting some value for a player who had no intention of re-signing with Boston. But the real reason that Nomar had to go was because he was dragging everyone down. He was an angry athlete who wanted nothing to do with his teammates and nothing to do with the cause. The Red Sox lost a great bat yesterday, but they liberated 24 players who can move forward with the traditional understanding that everyone in the clubhouse is working toward a common goal.

It was not that way this year with Nomar. Already unsure about his desire to stay in Boston, he was irreparably wounded by the Alex Rodriguez trade efforts of last winter. He was unable to focus on the job at hand.

He can say whatever he wants in front of the camera and he can flash that insincere smile, but make no mistake: He hates Boston and he hates the Red Sox and you should be glad that he's gone. If you are a Red Sox fan, he is not your friend.

That's not to say that he won't be missed on the field. It's impossible to predict that the Sox will be better for this in 2004. They have a new shortstop and first baseman. They have Gold Glovers where they had Cast Iron Glovers. But they lose an offensive force. They no longer have an All-Star shortstop capable of hitting .370 and beating the opposition with his bat, glove, base running, and toughness.

"We were not willing to lose Nomar Garciaparra and get nothing in return," Lucchino said last night, after the deal was announced. "Part of it had to do with his attitude toward re-signing. He was too valuable to get nothing in return."

There is no doubt that this is one of the biggest deals in the history of the Red Sox. Trading Nomar is a bold, brash move by the new front office. This was a megadeal of the highest order. But Nomar asked for this. He was an Army of One -- totally disengaged from the 24 people he took the field with every day. Baseball is a selfish, individual sport, but Garciaparra took that to a new level. That's why he had to go.

"He was struggling," admitted Lucchino. "I had a feeling his health raised uncertainty about his availability. He did seem to struggle. There was a lot of pressure with the injury. There were times the injury was reflected in this kind of pressure . . . and what kind of teammate changes the mood or has the ability to impact the club?"

Lucchino is being polite. The Sox brass wanted to get the angry shortstop out of here. And now he is gone. After seven-plus great seasons.

Had he liked it here, he could have been our DiMaggio. He was that good. But he hated being famous and he hated being a prime-time ballplayer in a region that cares with relentless passion.

So now he is gone. It was a great run, but life goes on without Nomar. It hurts. But it was the right thing to do.

The Red Sox traded a great player. But they have a chance to be a better team without him.

 

super mario,

Thanks for posting the Shaughnessy article.

Pued and others - you see why the Sox had to deal Nomar now? Not only was he going to leave them after the season, but he was a negative influence in the clubhouse.

Yea, Cabrera and Mientkiewicz will never be able to put up the offensive numbers that Nomar can, but they at least WANT to be in Boston unlike Garciaparra. Besides ever since Nomar hurt his wrist a couple of seasons ago, he has never been the same player he was before that injury.

 

Great. Now I can put away my NOMAH shirt with my Francis jersey and in a few years call them throwbacks.

Nomar is a gamer. He plays hard and gives it his all, but for the Globe writer to rip him on his way out is rather disingenuous. Meanwhile, fancy boy Pedro and space cadet Manny is still around, and they got rid of the most likable Sox player.

 

AS a Padre fan I am very disappointed they let teh Dodgers get Finley. Finley would have been a great addition for teh playoff run, and letting him goto the team we're chasing hurts even more.

Also disappointed SD traded Valdez to Florida. Although he was inconsistent (great outting, shelled the next time out, etc).

Also I saw conflicting reports about SD getting Fullmer. One report said they got him, the next said his injury was more serious and a trade wouldn't happen.

So I'm not exactly thrilled about the results, but we'll see what happens.

 

The curse of Nomah begins.....

 

hey dude... here's a tidbit for you. not exactly meaningful, but not meaningless either.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/n...040801&content_id=817003&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp

SAN FRANCISCO -- Jason Schmidt joined a distinguished list on Sunday night -- elite pitchers who have lost to the Cardinals this year.

Of the top eight pitchers in the National League in ERA, every one has either taken a loss against St. Louis or started a game that his team lost to the Cardinals. Schmidt pitched beautifully, allowing two runs over seven innings, but nonetheless was the losing pitcher against Woody Williams and the Cards, 6-1, on Sunday night.

 

Yes... watched the game... and Schmidt pitched good enough to win (especially against that offense).

What won the game for the Cards was THEIR pitching..... Woody brought his game tonight.

I don't know why I thought the Giants could end up winning the West... they have absolutely no bullpen, and their lineup, sans Bonds, is average at best.

 

yes... when A.J. Pierzynski is your second best hitter... you're in trouble.

i have no sympathy for Bonds. does it really want to win a ring? because he's making it impossible for the Giants to get better players.

although... he could just go on the Yankees at the end of his career... haha... that would be SOOOO cheap though.

back to the Cards... you knew the Giants were done when the Schmidt left. the Cards WILL score on average relievers, and every team's got some of those.

thought about your Mariners comparison some more. the reason i think the cards are different is because that year... Bret Boone had a season for the ages. Everyone was playing above their ability. Even to some extent Ichiro (who IS actually pretty awesome though). But guys like Mike Cameron were hitting much better than they actually were but in the end the only consitent hitters were Ichiro and Olerud (who is a machine... not in the Albert Pujols / Barry Bonds sense but in the puts out the same stats every year like Rafael Palmeiro pre-2004 sense). Like the Sox last year, potent offense, but you know Millar, Mueller, and Varitek aren't really as good as they were because they've never shown any signs of being that good or being able to sustain that level of play (sure enough this year we find out). So at any point those offenses can cool down.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals. Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds... they aren't doing anything they haven't done at some point in their career before. Except I guess Rolen... but he's going along a improvement curve. So I think the offense is sustainable.

But haha... I'm just being optimistic here. Don't argue with me anymore because you're taking up all my time. LOL... just admit the Cards are good.