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Government showdown of 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, May 9, 2023.

  1. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  2. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    But that's what the omnibus budget is for. If you give in to republican ransom now he'll be a lame duck president. He's taking the high road and flipping off the GOP.

    Hes the first democratic president not to capitulate to the Republicans. It's a beautiful thing to see.
     
  3. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    the GOP already passed a bill raising the debt ceiling. What in it is unreasonable?
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    They need to pass a clean debt ceiling bill. Then they can negotiate on whatever they want...
     
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  5. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    How about 20% cut to veterans benefits? You're sicko
     
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    When the Dems held the House when Trump held the presidency and the Senate, they passed climate bills that the Senate never took up that Trump would veto.

    Under your logic, shouldn’t Trump have “negotiated?”

    The Republicans are clearly trying to force massive legislative priorities on the simple act of raising the debt ceiling which is their constitutional duty.

    Either you just simply do not understand basic government or you are just trolling. This isn’t that complicated. It’s economic terrorism plain and simple as well as unconstitutional.
     
  7. adoo

    adoo Member

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    A clause in the 14th Amendment is being cautiously considered as a possible emergency fix as the U.S. economy hurtles toward the looming threat of default.

    The U.S. passed its borrowing limit earlier this year, and the Treasury Department has now said it could run out of ways to stave off a default by as soon as June 1 — and lawmakers and the White House are battling over whether and how to lift the $31.4 trillion debt ceiling and skirt default.

    Republicans want to hike the debt limit and implement spending cuts, while the Biden White House, just like the Trump White House, has pressed for a “clean” increase — bringing progress to an impasse.

    The 14th amendment includes a section that mentions debt:
    • “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned,”
    • “But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”
    Some legal scholars believe the 14th Amendment’s reference to the national debt could be interpreted to mean it’s unconstitutional for the nation not to pay its debts — which would allow Biden to direct the Treasury to continue issuing debts to pay the U.S.’s bills without an increase or suspension of the ceiling.


    Laurence Tribe's take on the 14th amendment and the debt ceiling.

    The right question is whether Congress — after passing the spending bills that created these debts in the first place — can invoke an arbitrary dollar limit to force the president and his administration to do its bidding.

    And there is only one person with the power to give Congress that answer: the president of the United States. As a practical matter, what that means is this:


    Mr. Biden must tell Congress in no uncertain terms — and as soon as possible, before it’s too late to avert a financial crisis — that the United States will pay all its bills as they come due, even if the Treasury Department must borrow more than Congress has said it can.​

     
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  8. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    You negotiate when both sides have something the other wants/needs
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  10. Commodore

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    I'm all for this, as it further debases the currency and hastens bitcoin adoption
     
  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    debasing an economic rat poison like bitcoin is a good thing
     
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  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Do you negotiate with your credit card company after you buy a bunch of stuff and don't wanna pay?
     
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  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    No, that's what's the budget is for. Congress creates the budget and then they want to negotiate on whether to pay the bill on that budget AFTER they spent the money????

    How does that make any sense? There's a whole budget bill for the future you can negotiate on. Why use the threat of default to get what you want?

    This isn't negotiation, it's a temper tantrum
     
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  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    No they passed a bit to cut spending.
     
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  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Curious... excluding avoiding crashing a global economy... what in your mind is "what the other wants/needs"?
     
  16. Commodore

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    Biden wants to take on more debt to service existing debt. GOP wants that as well, but also wants spending reforms. This is negotiation 101
     
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    So what you are describing suggests that the Democrat statement that republicans are holding the global economy hostage by trying to negotiate away from paying previous debts by refusing to pass a clean debt ceiling bill is correct.

    Biden is then correct... until republicans agree to a debt ceiling bill (and then afterwards, open negotiations for spending bills), republicans will own whatever economic disaster happens.
     
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  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Negotiation 101 - both sides get something. Biden is being offered nothing.

    It's not negotiation in that case, it's blackmail.
     
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  19. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Republicans freaking out knowing they want get the bs austerity cuts
     
  20. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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