Our unsong Heroes Our Glue I think these three players will help us alot Jason Collier Dan Langhi Kenny Thomas I think this will be a break out Year for them I would prefer Collier start to Cato [Save cato and his 6 fouls for later make his 13 minutes a game QUALITY] KT may find some spot duty at C [Shiver] Langhi will have his Break out Season Jason - 8~10pts 6~8rbs .5 blks .25 steals 100% hustle in about 20 minutes a game Dan - 6~8pts 3~5rbs 1 blk .5 stls in 10~15 minutes KT BOLD PREDICTION - 12~14 pts 10rps .5 blks 1.5 stls Rocket River ------------------
I Think KT will get the most mins due to the fact we don't have many post players that like to bang and your right I agree most of his mins probably at center. Although I think DL is the best of the group we just have so many SF that he might not get as many mins as most of us would like. I agree also I think his mins will double to 14 from 7. JC is just out of it right now with his physical state. I really hope he gets better, he wasn't bad last year when he played. But at this point I think I rather have AD who is simular to JC in that AD likes to play outside, shoot 3's and set screens. KT - 20-25 mins. PF,C DL - 10-15 mins. SF,SG JC - 5-10 mins. C,PF ------------------
cool. I like this thread much better that the one where ZRB is annoying The Cat again. But RR, you misspelled "unsung" again.
I agree, this thread is much more enjoyable than the one ZRB's in. ------------------ So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again. The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
In fact, this is the best argument for bringing back User Deletes. Since ZRB posts so quickly and The Cat is always right on his ass, you could fake out ZRB and The Cat with one thread, and start another identical one while they are going at it in the first one...then eventually delete the fake one before Clutch finds out. Now *that* is multi-threaded discussions.
That's nice Chrispee, now let me say it again: I would rather have Moochie Norris start at center than Jason Collier. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
Now let me say this again: You are really showing your ignorance on basketball here. Why don't you back up your posts with some facts and statistics, instead of the baseless bull**** we had to hear from you during the season? Explain to me why Jason Collier should be cut. Each team needs 2 centers, some 3. There are 29 teams in the NBA, so let's say they need 2.5 centers each. Multiply the two together, you get 72.5. Can you please name me 72 centers better than Jason Collier in the NBA? You obviously don't know much about the draft either. The majority of NBA players don't come in and blow everyone away their first year. It is a constant cycle of improvement that you can only gain through experience and working hard. You'll probably be writing off Griffin if he comes in this year and averages 9 and 6 in 25 minutes a game. So let's talk some about Collier. Don't give me this **** about he's slow, or doesn't have good athletism. That doesn't make you a good player. Give me some statistics, some facts, some information. You told me the other day in the chat that you, like me, were a fan of Sam Perkins. Exactly how is Sam Perkins right now that much better than Collier? He has a little more range on his jumper, and well, that's it. He's much slower running the floor, much worse in post defense, much worse in hustle... should he be cut too? Or is adding 3 feet to your jumper the difference between being CBA material and being a "ZRB favorite". Let's talk about some of the things he can do. At least average in running the floor-- if you guys think he doesn't have enough speed compared to most NBA centers you need to see how slow a lot of these guys are. Offensively, he really has a lot of skills. Has a nice lefty hook near the baseline that is very hard to defend. When he's aggressive inside, he can really score with anyone. He has the post moves, and the soft touch. In addition to that, he has an excellent jumper out to 20-21 feet, probably past Mo Taylor's range, and he can space the floor really well. Did you see how good he did against Shaq and the Lakers on election night in that area? What also really helps him is that when he sets picks, he sets them like a brick wall, and then he knows where to go to get open for the jumper after Steve or Cuttino is doubled. That knowledge and understanding of the game is extremely rare for someone playing his first month in the NBA. He knows the fundamentals of the game very well, but to most those types of things are overshadowed by mad hops and windmill dunks. Defensively, he's not the best, but he's still learning. He really knows how to box out for the rebounds, and he works his ass off in the post. He has the hustle that Cato and others lack, and I can tell he will be successful one day based on that alone. Don't agree? Let's look at some numbers from when Collier was healthy and given the backup center minutes. Season numbers are irrelevant, as he was hurt after the Celtics game in November and was clearly not the same player afterwards. Minutes that he picked up at the end of games are also mostly irrelevant. Take a look at the numbers when he was fully healthy, given the role on the team Rudy needs him to fill, and was given a chance to get in the flow of the game. Lakers November 7 Collier-- 10 pts (4-6 shooting), 4 reb, 13 minutes Boy, this sure screams CBA. In his first week in the NBA, he comes out and does everything we need him to do. He spaces the floor, rebounds, hits the open shots, plays Shaq with as much courage as you can asks, and teams with Hakeem to limit Shaq to a mere 24 points and 7 rebounds on 8-19 shooting. The fans gave him a standing ovation. Grizzlies November 9 Collier-- 8 pts (4-7 shooting), 4 reb, 20 minutes Again, he did everything you could ask. What more could you expect from a rookie in his first month? He hit the open shots, rebounded, set picks well, defended well, etc. His counterpart that game, Ike Austin, was limited to 2 points and 2 rebounds in 18 minutes of play on 1-5 shooting. Blazers November 11 Collier-- 12 pts (5-9 shooting), 4 reb, 21 minutes Another horrible performance. Collier goes out against the deepest frontcourt in the NBA, on a terrible shooting game for the rest of the Rockets, and still finds a way to continually contribute on both ends of the floor. His counterpart on the Blazers, Shawn Kemp, was limited to 8 points and 5 rebounds in 24 minutes. Lakers November 12 Collier-- 10 pts, 3 reb, 16 min He is just pathetic isn't he? Against Shaq and the Lakers, on the road, in the first month of his career, he only gives 10 points and 3 rebounds in 16 minutes. I mean, if he continues on that pace for starters minutes, he would have 20 points and 6 rebounds. Horrible. He should be getting 50 and 20 in the first month. And how did he do on defense? Pretty damn terrific. This was Shaquille O'Neal, one of the most dominant big men of all time. Of all-time. And Collier teamed with Hakeem at the center spot that game to limit Shaq to just 14 points and 5 rebounds on 6-14 shooting. No, it wasn't just Dream at all. Suns November 18 Collier-- 6 pts, 2 reb, 14 minutes This was the game that put the Rockets over .500 for the first time in since 1999. And Collier did his job just fine. Hit his shots, set picks well-- did everything you could ask from a young player in the first month of his career. He also limited his competition, Jake Tsaklidas, to just 2 points and 1 rebound. Pacers November 21 Collier-- 0 pts (0-5), 2 reb, 15 min The only time he didn't bring it on the offensive end. So? Everyone's allowed to have a bad game, or at least they should be. No one can be perfect every night. Those other games should significantly outweigh this one, except according to bashers like yourself I'm sure. And he definitely didn't forget the defensive end. Remember Jeff Foster? The Pacers center many of you were hoping to get in an Hakeem sign and trade? Collier held him to 1 point and 0 rebounds in 12 minutes head to head. Celtics November 22 Collier-- 7 pts, 2 reb, 21 minutes This was the game he got hurt in, so I'm not sure how relevant some of these stats are. But he still did a pretty damn good job, in a game that most of the Rockets couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. For a comparison, Steve Francis had 6 points in 27 minutes in that game. No, these aren't all the games Collier played. But they are all the games in which he was both healthy and given the minutes and role he needed to succeed. Can you really expect him to contribute huge numbers and production when he's thrown on the court for a few minutes in garbage time, with no time period to get into the flow, no structured offense (which he strives in), etc.? And can you really expect him to produce major numbers when his knee isn't near 100%? Those numbers aren't Shaq-like. But you know what? They're pretty damn good for a rookie in the first month of his NBA career, and he still can't seem to get any respect around here. So many of us seemed to crave Austin Croshere last summer at the same time they bashed Collier, never even thinking that Croshere completely sucked for two years. He never had a stretch like Collier did in the limited time he was healthy. And he's a pretty solid NBA player. ZRB, tell me this. Who's the last CBA center, or a center who should be in the NBA, that came into the NBA, and immediately, in the first month of his career, contributed similar numbers and on court results to Collier this year? I can't think of many, if any at all. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Jason has no D. Those stats are decent for a third string backup, but not for a <h1>starter!!!!!!!</h1> ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
Dude, you really have no clue what you're talking about. You think 3rd string backups could produce those numbers? Show me numbers comparable to those in the first month of a 3rd string backup's career. Also, since you seem to be so sure about his D, why don't you show me some numbers genius? Check out his numbers when healthy. He and Dream combined to limit Shaq to 24 points and 7 rebounds in one game, and 14 points and 5 rebounds in the other. And no, it was not just Dream, no matter how you try and spin stuff. If he had no D, don't you think Shaq could get more than 14 points and 5 rebounds in a game that Collier guarded him for about 15 minutes? ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
By the way, I just crunched some numbers... exactly what 3rd string backups came into the league and in their first month did exactly what the coaches needed and contributed 7.6 points and 3 rebounds in 17 minutes. Let's compare this to ZRB favorite Sam Perkins, who averaged 3.8 points and 2.6 rebounds in 16 minutes and plays no defense. Somehow this is excusable to him though because he has some experience. Please. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Well, I guess this thread's done, too. Luckily the chat won't have the ZRB problem during the season. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
KT is the kind of blue collar player all winning teams must have. He's a great passer and tenacious rebounder. I expect he'll get signifcant playing time at the 3 or 4..whatever. Langhi, if given the chance will be as good a shooter as Walt with a hell of lot more athleticism, better defense, and should rebound effectively. I hope Rudy gives him a quality shot. Collier showed me scoring and rebounding ability, plus a nose for the ball, when he was healthy last year and got over his stage fright. He totally outproduced Cato in all departments/minutes played. There is no reason, once his knee comes around, that he shouldn't be even better in his second year. He is a natural shooter and a perfect center to play vs. zone defenses. Also being a lefty has it's advantages. With or without Dream, there's a lot of talent on this team!!
Holy Crap! I have never seen a two line post garnish such a long reply! ZRB you really pissed the Cat off this time. LMAO. ------------------
Dont mess with the CAT! He wont back down. I dont think Jason is a starter but I think he can become a nice backup if he is healthy. The one game I liked was when Houston went to portland. They lost that game but Jason Collier sure played well. Im not sure what his stats were but the way he played I was like thats the type of center we need. If he can stay healthy, get stronger. He can produce nice points off the bench mob we have. ------------------ "The girls danced, started fondling me, I got aroused, they performed oral sex," Ewing said. "I hung around a little bit and talked to them, then I left."
He's just pissed that I got Duncan on my fantasy team. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks! [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited July 23, 2001).]
Im not sure what his stats were Read my marathon post. They're up there. ZRB, Nothing personal against you-- but we're talking about a center who averaged 7.6 pts and 3 rebounds in 17 minutes (in his FIRST month in the NBA) and helped hold Shaq to 14 points and 5 rebounds in a game. The notion of a center with those results after his first month being 3rd string and having no defense is silly. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
I agree with the cat that if JC comes back this season healthy and plays like he did last year he could get the start over cato. I thought he did a pretty good job last year coming off the bench and considering he was a rookie. I think some fans are being too hard on him and just don't like him cause he's unspectacular and up until now because he was traded for the 9th pick. I just think we need team players like JC, KT, DL who are willing to play behind our stars and contribute to the team overall. ------------------
