1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The Kids Can’t Read

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Apr 16, 2023.

  1. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,087
    Likes Received:
    14,150
    Explains some of the reading comprehension in the D&D like “big pharma guy” “lmfao
     
    tinman likes this.
  2. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,999
    Likes Received:
    7,038
    Well, if they can’t read, we won’t have to ban books anymore. One way or the other, the indoctrination of kids will stop, am I rite?
     
  3. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    My career has been deeply involved with this issue for 20+ years. I'll comment more on this later when I have time.
     
  4. Colt45

    Colt45 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2000
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    3,011
    Greatness.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    My son is 3. He can read. And we didn't teach him. I was like, wtf, why can you do this?

    I read my birthday cards to my parents when I turned 4 and they were wondering the same thing. Looks like he is ahead of me.
     
    Nook likes this.
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,353
    Sounds like you're really focused on it
     
  7. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    First, I'll say that article was a very good broad overview and covered the main issues around reading instruction in the U.S.

    As the article mentioned, this is not a new battle. We have decades of research that confirms the most effective methods of teaching reading for most students that are learning to read in alphabetic languages. These include direct, explicit, systematic instruction in phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, comprehension and intentional knowledge building about the world (think science, history, social studies). In 2000, the National Reading Panel released their findings from a massive meta-analysis of the most rigorous research studies conducted up to that time, which confirmed the efficacy of these methods. Since then, brain imaging studies have demonstrated why these methods (especially direct, explicit, systematic instruction in phonemic awareness, phonics) are effective. They support a process called "orthographic mapping" in which our brains link letters and sounds to learn to efficiently/fluently read words with comprehension. All fluent readers go through this process, however a very small percentage of the population can achieve orthographic mapping with little or no explicit instruction in phonemic awareness and phonics. Most students need significant structured reading instruction to efficiently become fluent readers and some (like students with dyslexia) need really intensive instruction. The brain imaging research shows that this type of instruction actually changes the way the brains of dyslexic readers process text.

    Standing in opposition to these research-aligned methods of reading instruction was a movement originally called Whole Langue that later morphed into Balanced Literacy. Whole Language/Balanced Literacy is grounded in a belief that humans learn to read naturally, in much the same way we acquire language- that if you immerse students in quality literature they will learn to read. And that direct, explicit instruction in PA and phonics is unnecessary and can be harmful. This premise is not supported by the research consensus and is really flawed on its face. Text was only invented by humans around 5000 years ago. Our brains have not evolved to learn to process text and read in the same way we learn to speak and understand language, simply through exposure.

    Unfortunately, Whole Language/Balanced Literacy became widely popular among colleges of education in the U.S. and other English-speaking countries, which has led generations of teachers to graduate their teacher preparation programs unaware of the scientific research on effective reading instruction. The consequences have been catastrophic, especially for students of color, low-income students, and students with reading disabilities.

    Well, that feels like a wall of text and has really only scratched the surface. I'm happy to discuss this further if people want or have questions.
     
    No Worries, Xopher, Ubiquitin and 4 others like this.
  8. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,463
    Likes Received:
    47,382
    And the people who can read still can’t define what words mean
    Like the word ‘woman’
    @Space Ghost @SuraGotMadHops @AroundTheWorld
     
  9. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,463
    Likes Received:
    47,382
    the kids here can read and spell!
    @Jontro
     
  10. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,323
    Likes Received:
    33,042
    We changing pronouns now . .. . . so Reading may become a moving target

    Rocket River
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,323
    Likes Received:
    33,042
    I think it would be interesting to follow the money on who backed that ideal

    Rocket River
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  12. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    Various educational publishers and PD providers have made a shitload of money off of Balanced Literacy. Teachers College Reading and Writing Workshop out of Columbia University is one of the most popular reading programs in the country. However, the increased attention around reading research has put a big dent in their market share and they have had to revise their curriculum to include systematic phonics instruction. To be fair, publishers of reading programs that align to research also make plenty of money. Nobody's doing this for free. Or I should say almost nobody. There are some open source reading programs aligned with the research.
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  13. Xopher

    Xopher Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,463
    Likes Received:
    7,455
    I'm not being a smart-ass, but are you saying the whole "Hooked on Phonics" thing worked? Why did we switch?
     
  14. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,544
    Likes Received:
    4,952
    @gifford1967 Did anything like that happen with math? Kids can't math, either. The way it's taught is convoluted, IMO. Lots of kids get it, but when they don't, the strategies to teach them kids devolve back to the old school.

    There's a lot of money floating around in education. A lot of that money is snatched by people who don't have anything else to do but reinvent the wheel. A lot of 6 figure people who never set foot in a classroom.
     
    Xopher likes this.
  15. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    Well, I don't have any personal knowledge about that program, though of course I remember the commercials. There are right ways and wrong ways to teach phonics, just like anything else. And phonics isn't enough on it's own, but it is a critical element.
     
    Xopher likes this.
  16. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    I only have the most surface level knowledge about what's happening around math instruction. But it is my understanding that there are similar conflicts with that as well, like controversy over whether kids really need to learn their times tables, for example.
     

Share This Page