Oh wow so you are saying that he is already on a par with Ingram lmao yeah this sub really says some weird stuff.
No, I didn't. Reading is fundamental. By the way, at 20 yrs old, Ingram averaged 16 ppg. LaVine averaged 14. Green is averaging nearly 22 ppg. Ingram and LaVine are obviously good comparison players, but neither represent Green's potential "peak."
I would argue that anyone who is surprisingly disappointed by this season hasn't been paying attention for the last few years. When Harden bailed, the brain trust decided to rebuild with a full-on tank, which means getting the highest draft picks as possible. Consequently, they've done little else to improve the team. FA signings have been scant, mostly taking flyers on foreign-league standouts like Tate or guys floating in the NBA orbit like Cauley-Stein, Darius Days, etc. You could argue that Tate is the only FA signing in the last few years that improved our odds at winning, and then only slightly. And that's despite the mountain of cap space we're sitting on. Olynyk surprised us all by proving to be an important piece of the rotation, so of course we let him walk. The point to all this is that Stone could easily have improved the team over the summer and at the trade deadline if his only goal was winning more games right away. But that was never the goal this year, when there's a legit shot at two game-changing talents to be had for the worst teams (not a great shot, odds-wise, but as good or better than any other team's odds). This season was supposed to be painful. We've got a bunch of kids in the starting lineup and are offering them no veteran help to try to win immediately. That goes for Green as well, obviously. If we're still at the very bottom of the league this time next season, these takes would be valid. For now, though, it just seems a lot of you missed the memo that went out a couple of years back.
Green needs to get basketball strong, before he takes the next leap forward. Everyone probably knows that. But a skinny weakling is not going to last the rigors of the NBA season. highlight reels and all are impressive, but highlights don’t equate to game defining pendulums. I hope Green hits the weight room and gets to the point he knows he needs to get to. If not he will be a side show spectacle.
No. Booker and Green have very similar sophomore years. Booker might have a slight edge in mass but Green is another level when it comes to acceleration, wiggle, shiftiness and explosion. There is nothing to suggest Green can't be at Ant or Booker level. Ant with DLo, Towns, Beverly etc in his sophomore year probably helped. Ant also only has a 2% higher ts% with slightly lower ppg in his sophomore season. Green has 17 games left. He could easily match Ant's scoring efficiency his sophomore year while averaging more surrounded by a SIGNIFICANTLY worse cast.
I appreciate your optimism, but we should put a pin and comeback at the end of season on this. To compare offense only. Since defense is likely off the table.
Anfernee Simons as a sophomore averaged 8 pts on 50% ts. I don't buy any of your takes if you are comparing that guy to Green and saying that is a likely trajectory.
Not sophmore year for Anfernee, I specifically said junior / senior (3rd and 4th year) for Anfernee. Simons' first two years was meh and didn't really take off until 3rd-5th year .. also getting more minutes later on (after CJ). His efficiency went up 3rd year, then 4th and 5th year had efficiency plus more pts and minutes. Because Jalen's sophmore year has been meh in terms of trajectory. The whole point is to see if Green's lift off growth is his 3rd year, instead of his OK first two years (not great / not terrible). This is not me putting Jalen down, it's more re-shifting expecations.
So not the same trajectory. It's very simple. Do you think a 20 year old sophomore Simons who averaged 8 on 50% ts with guys like Lillard and CJ in his team can ranp up his usage to Green's and magically at that same time also increase his ts% by 4 percentage pts? Ya no. If they can't handle being decently efficient on smaller volume and easier shots, no why they are going to be anywhere close to Green's efficiency ramping up that usage and also now being the center of defensive focus. So they are different trajectories and obviously different talent levels. So I still don't understand the comparison.
Not all teams are exact doesn't mean we can't compare. Edwards in sophmore year had better teammates than Rockets. Plus, again in my original post, I already qualify that Simons played next to Dame and added that if mabye we get a vet guard next year, Green's 3rd year numbers may go up. Everyone on the board know you super high on Green (and that's fine). You don't have to shoot everyone down, who might still like Green but not as absolute. Even mathloom starter of the chapter threads is waivering somewhat. None of us want to see Green not succeed, people are just different in their spectrum on his ceiling and how fast he may get there. If Green's efg / 3p% / TS% can be like Simons in 3rd (efficiency) and 4th/5th year (efficiency + more usage); even if just offense; more of us would feel better. Simons TS% / 3p% year 1 - 53.5% / 34.5% year 2 - 50.2% / 33.2% year 3 - 58.9% / 42.6% (4.4 attempts) year 4 - 58.3% / 40.5% (7.8 attempts) year 5 - 58.3% / 37.8% (9.1 attempts) (season still on going) If Green is at 58% TS year 3 and after... for a guard; that's not shabby at all. Comparing him to Simons was not a diss.
Neither Ingram nor Lavine are good comparisons with regards to the point you're trying to make since they didn't have the green light that Jalen Green does. When Lavine was 20, he wasn't even a full-time starter, and he was playing behind Towns and Wiggins. When Ingram was 20, his Lakers team had a lot of young talent in Ball, Randle, Clarkson, and Kuzma.
Alright. I guess you'll be happy with Green's progress next season if he can bump his scoring efficiency up to 58% while.... Averaging 8 pts per game. My god man.
Simons year 3 is 2019 season; CJ was still there. So Simons played less minutes. When he had more minutes it became 17.3 ppg in year 4 and currently 21 ppg this year, while still having respectable efficiency. Efficiency-wise this is where we want Green to be. Simons is considered part of their core; if and when Dame eventually leaves or retire; he's their next guy up.
CJ had a lower ts% than Simons that season. Why didn't they ramp up Simons usage to score 20+ if his ts% was 58%. What? you telling me that the same player jumping from 18% usage to like 28% usage isn't going to magically maintain their scoring efficiency? Hmm seems like things like added defensive attention, stamina etc come in to play. He'd also be asked to self create a lot more with that substantial increase in usage.
Just curious. You'll be happy with Green's development if he next season averages 8 ppg but at 58% ts% I don't think you understand how much work you have to do here to sell this. The fact that I think this is trolling should hint at how absurd I think this is. Dude averaged 8 ppg man. Come on. It's not like the kid was averaging 16 ppg on 58% ts where you can squint your eyes a bit and see him possibly scoring over 20 ppg with relatively the same efficiency.
Just curious. You'll be happy with Green's development if he next season averages 8 ppg but at 58% ts% I don't think you understand how much work you have to do here to sell this. The fact that I think this is trolling should hint at how absurd I think this is. Dude averaged 8 ppg man. Come on. Both Lavine and Ingram had the same scoring efficiency as Green on much lower volume. Ramping up their volume as the same level of player is only going to decrease their efficiency. Defenses pay more attention to you. Stamina comes in to play. More of your buckets are going to need to be self created. etc.
I think you're a bit hung up on the exact year #. Simons was the 24th pick and there was an established vet in front of him (CJ). Green got his full reps and starter minutes year 1&2 with the Rockets. If we're talking similar minutes played per game. Then technically it'd be Simons' year 4 and 5 (17 and 21 ppg). Anyways, you don't have to like the comp, guys like Edwards are more two-way and right now I don't see that with Green. (at least right now) Kenny Smith his faults but that saying; 'somebody' has to be a 20+ ppg scorer even on a bad team. But the key is to try to do it efficiently.
