In DEFENSE of Alperen Sengun - Analysis on why Sengun may already be an above average defender

1 does this mean embiied cant be a franchise guy ?
2 or harden hasnt enough help?
3 Sengun cant be the franchise until he learns to shoot 3 pointers?
4 mayority of cf is black players only fans?

 

Correct. And that's why the center will always look bad. When 3 out of 5 people aren't defending at all, even Gobert would look terrible.

 

@jordnnnn
analytics is a trap , i told you not to go there, anything can be proved using analytics!

 

cant really avoid race here...btw i know your intentions are the best, juts as mine, but you seem little paranoid always running away from that

it cant be a coincidence that 3 white guys are best offensive rebounders in NBA so either they are as athletic as the most athletic black guys or .....or the offensive rebounding doesn't requires athleticism, and if it does not require athleticism, what does it require then?
the brains? loololol

 

Numbers don't always tell full picture. They played a garbage team in the first round. I only care what happens later. Embiids drop coverage isn't gonna win anything. Especially with the shooters we have in todays nba.

Eye test says they went at him every single time. And Jimmy had 32 points. As great of a defender as you think he is. He was still basically played off the floor.

 

lol sir you running little school of bb tonight... this is inspiring!

 

@jordnnnn - in light of the data - which we should NOT explain away, I whole-heartedly agree with you! - why are you saying that calling Sengun a non-terrible defender is "delusional"?

He is

• 9th in the entire NBA in rebounds per 48 minutes
• 12th in the entire NBA in blocks per 48 minutes

and

• opponent FG% in the paint is better than Jokic and almost the same as Sabonis, Adebayo, Horford, Poeltl, Anthony Davis, Embiid

Analyzing this data - which should not be explained away, I so agree with you! - are you still saying that those who think he is not a terrible defender are delusional?

Remember, 3 out of the other 4 people on the court with him usually play no defense.

Thanks.

 

Hey BTW these stats are wrong , a quick look at bkref per 36 stats and he's not in the top 20 for either

 

I don't know why, it's the NBA site. I have been only on my phone, could try to check more later.

 

then Jimmy went and immediately dropped 41 and 29 in the 1st 2 games against Boston and 47 and 35 later on in the series…Jimmy dropping 32 doesn’t mean anything, he balled out the entire playoffs

the Sixers defense was better with Embiid on the floor against the Heat, and it wasn’t because Harden, Maxey, and Tobias were locking up

2018 playoffs: 98.6 defensive rating with Embiid on…108.8 with him off

2019 playoffs: Sixers an astounding 93 defensive rating with Embiid on the court, 120 with him off

2021: 105.8 with him on, 107 with him off

2023: 108.9 with him on, 114.4 with him off

Embiid played off the floor? C’mon, stop it

the actual reason the Sixers aren’t gonna win anything this year is because they are simply not better than Boston or Milwaukee, not because Embiid is gonna get played off the floor

previous reasons why the Sixers didn’t win anything include his co-star being Ben Simmons, injuries, and his offense just declining in the postseason…not because he was getting “exposed” in drop

 

Blocks are not defense.

Using rebounds per 48 is dilutive, because it adds offensive rebounding. He is 22nd in defensive rebound per 48, not good.

Ran a queery on DFG%, min thirty games among centers and he is not even on the first page, 37th or so.

So yea, as expected, not good at all.

 

22nd in defensive rebounding per 48 is not good?

Please explain.

There are 30 teams. There are about 450 NBA players. How is being 22nd "not good"?

 

So I am now on my computer - it seems that nba.com filters out certain players based on lower amount of minutes or number of games played or something (but without saying so) - otherwise, e.g., Steven Adams would have to be the rebounding leader in totals, and Drummond would be the rebounding leader per 48 minutes.

Anyway, Sengun is "up there" - the basic point remains the same.

 

“Terrible” is not the word I would use to describe his defense. Limited might be the best. His physical limitations are undeniable and very likely put a cap on his ceiling. And I don’t believe that his ceiling as a defender is terrible or bad, just likely not good or great. And it also should be no slight to him that he is not currently considered very good on defense, he’s extremely young. Extremely young players are almost always bad on defense.

As someone pointed out he’s actually 27th in rebounding per minute and 40th in blocks per minute.

The stat I provided isn’t a one and done metric of proof of defensive quality. My apologies if my post appeared to pass it off as one. That stat does not take into account all the shots that a defender’s presence stops from even occurring. As long as all the other things to consider on defense. Positioning/IQ, switch-ability, athleticism….

Jokic and Sabonis aren’t good defenders, especially Sabonis. Adebayo and Davis have much more switch-ability. Like I said opponent FG% allowed in the restricted area isn’t a one number proof.

Things I find delusional regarding the discussion around Sengun:
Everything @hakeem94 posts. Everything.
The idea that a centers defense and a guards defense are equally detrimental to a teams ability to be an overall good defense
Comparisons defensively to Draymond Green and Bam Adebayo. Two guys who will likely be top 5 in DPOY voting this season.
The belief that building a good to very good defense around Sengun will be no problem.

 

He really isn't.

Look at bkref per 36 and you can filter out non-qualifiers

 

He is 26th in rebounds per 36 (rather than 22nd, as on nba.com) on bkref.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.html

There are a few players - to be precise, Drummond, Reed, Garuba, Nick Richards - who have very few minutes. I think nba.com filtered them out (but annoyingly, without stating it).

So the basic point remains unchanged, with regards to rebounding.

On blocks, he is indeed much lower on bkref. 40th per 36 minutes (Jabari is 41st). No idea why nba.com got it so wrong. But youngest guy in top 40, other than Duren.

Only thing is, now I don't know whether to trust the "opponent FG % stats" on nba.com either.

 

The basic point is that the highest rebounding rate guys are going to be centers, so it eliminates 80% of the other players as comparisons.

22nd is not good. That means, on any given night, and most nights in the playoffs, the other center is going to be a better rebounder.

That is not a good thing.

 

He gets more rebounds per 36 minutes than Embiid, Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, Bam Adebayo, Myles Turner, Evan Mobley, Draymond Green, Jayson Tatum, to name just a few players. Hardly terrible.

 

You can do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to stay in your bubble.

When you are ready, reality will be waiting.

 

Sengun is a perrtu good rebounder

Eye test and all

I do fell like he's hit a bit of a wall these last dozen games or so . Completely normal for young big man who's got some sand in his pants