Cam Thomas vs. Jalen Green? Who is the best 2 guard from the 2021 NBA Draft

cam knows the wassups. need pics of good looking gais

 

So predictable.

 

Hmm, I think I see an outlier.

 

But he sucks, worst player on the team. Lol

 

Numbers look even better if you exclude the 2 games sandwiching his injury. The cleveland game where he got hurt and then his first game back when he was still dealing with it.

 

Sure buddy take one statistical Marker that proves yout narrative and run with it. The team is the worst team in the league so naturally the players who play the most will measure out the worst in your beloved metric. If jalen green played 35 min for the warriors, just based on team performance and how many points they give up as a team (bc no one plays one on one) he would be higher.
The kid is doing things so far that only handful of people his age have done (but you ofcourse negate that) but of course your narrative is set which is green sucks so when he does well your blind hate for the guy convinces you it's a fluke. He has had 17 flukes in a season and a half before turning 21 (30+ point games )
Enjoy your hate

 

The chances of getting stars with top 3 or 5 picks is greater than bottom of the draft.
Ofcourse you can find players in the bottom of the round but it's rare. Not even going to do any research but I am willing to bet that if you looked at players who made all nba teams or mvp winners and see where they were drafted, I am willing to bet significantly more players were drafted top 5 than bottom 5

 

YOUR HEAD IS DENSE AND YOU ARE NOT INTELLIGENT LIFE HOW CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE WORSTEST PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE LIKE THISS??!!

 

I don't want to put words into Nathan Foggy's (@foggy94 ) mouth, but if he were here right now I'm sure he'd quote the great Cam Thomas and say, "No homo."

 

ummmm.... yes, i agree there will be notably more talent at the top of the draft than the bottom... ?

i dont disparage 'the process' as a viable option - but rather poke fun at those who view it as the only option... lol!

(ie Les didnt let us tank... we were on 'the treadmill of mediocrity'... we push our chips in on Harden, hit on Parsons, Lins poison pill coulda been better spent... but we were in the mix... a lil tinkering and we're contenders - no tank needed... and really, were it not for the dysfunction and megalomania we shoulda got a chip or two...jus sayin... lol)

You can also look at the laundry list of top 5 picks that turned into total busts (Morey used to collect em on the cheap - lol)... imagine wasting an entire year of your franchise... making your fan base watch crap - for an entire year... and you get Stromile Swift or Jonny Flynn for your efforts... lol! Thanks, i'd rather watch those scrappy Scola teams go out and fight every night for a .500 record and play the longer odds of pulling a Kawhi in the draft...

jus my opinion though...

 

Saying Jalen Green is the worst player on the team because he grades as one of the worst is dumb, lazy or just straight trolling. The Rockets are the worst team in the league and any players whose developing on the worst team is most likely going to grade that way.

Only Jaden Ivey(detroit) and Keldon Jonson(SA) who are on equally bad teams rank worse than Jabari and Jalen.

 

It's not so much that more guys were drafted in the top 5 or 10 or lottery. The odds are better.

As in, for a single draft say 1 top 5 player breaks out, 3 other 1st rounders break out, and 2 2nd rounders breaks out. The top 5 pick was still (1/5) 20% chance, the rest of the 1st round had a (3/25) 12% chance, and the 2nd round had a (2/30) 7% chance. And that is not even taking into account where those guys were drafted which would further decrease the chances with each subsequent pick.

 

If anyone deserves a nice bit of luck in the draft, it’s the Nets. Happy for them, but we’ve got our guys.

 

If Jalen played 35 minutes a game for the Warriors, then the Warriors would be a MUCH worse team than they currently are.

It's funny, every time Jalen has a fluke good game, we get the usual suspects pretending that every other game didn't happen....that Jalen is actually amazing and anyone pointing out his struggles is "hating". If you do well in 17 games (your number) out of 118 games....don't you see how that could seem like a "fluke" or little more than a random hot game surrounded by terrible performances on both sides of the ball? Another factor is that not every 30 point game is a good thing. If you shot the ball 25+ times to get those 30 points, you padded your statline to the detriment of your team.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy seeing the flashes of competence offensively, and those games have happened, but since they are so rare and his defense is just so terrible, it still puts him as a guy who shouldn't see the court very often if there was any accountability on the Rockets.

Also, if that metric was the same for all players on a terrible team, why is it only Jalen and Jabari that are down at the bottom? You know there's more than 2 players playing a lot of minutes for the Rockets right?

Sorry killer, but the truth is that Jalen Green has terrible metrics because he's one of the most detrimentally awful defender in the NBA....now sure, there's probably worse defenders, but most teams wouldn't play guys that awful as many minutes so it makes Jalen's incompetence stand out more. The opposite is true for Jabari...his offense is stunningly awful.

When you give heavy minutes to guys who are currently as bad offensively as Jabari, and as bad defensively as Jalen, you're going to lose a LOT of games....no matter what team we're talking about.

 

That’s not at all how it works. The relevant metrics is ON-OFF +/- where Green has been very disappointing, and it matches the eye test that the team is worse with him on the floor, because of the incompetent defense and lack of effort.

ON-OFF means the when he’s on the floor team falls behind MORE than when he ‘s off the floor. You’re right that on gross +/- everyone on the Rox looks bad because the team sucks, but that’s not the metrics that is relevant.

So despite all your rhetorics it is you who is being disingenuous. You bring up empty scoring stats but disregard the 10-8 winning record w/o Green, you disregard the ON_OFF +/-, you disregard the other metrics that measure contribution to winning where he looks trash as well, compared to his teammates on the same crappy team (RAPTOR, BPM, WS, etc).

More often than not Green has been toxic. If you are a GOF you’re free to celebrate his empty scoring stats, but for us Rockets fans he’s not doing anything at the moment.

 

Huh. His point still stands. Bad team is definitely a confounding factor for on and off numbers dude. The player with the highest usage on that type of team is going to suffer. Because they play the most minutes meaning they also play the most minutes against the opposing team's starters. Green's minutes on the floor match that of the opposing team's best players.

Keldon Johnson is no where near the worst player in the NBA. Not even close. But why is he at the bottom? Because he's a high usage player on a crap team. The high usage player on a crap team will always have the worst in and off numbers. Ya the few minutes Green isn't on the floor the opposing team's scrubs are on the floor.

If Green's minutes on the floor coincided with some 11th man rather than Devin Booker or Anthony Edwards, ya his defensive numbers on a **** team might slightly improve.

Devin Booker was in a similar situation with high usage on a bad team his first couple of years. And I bet he was bear the bottom in things like RAPTOR and any other **** advanced stats that is frying people's brains now a days.

 

Top 5 stupid thread in a sea of stupid threads. Impressive.

 

yes, I agree with that clarification. JG is among the worst of the NBA heavy minutes starters. That’s a valid clarification. that’s why some of us were advocating for him to come of the bench, so that he can match with weaker opposition.

 

Let's even isolate Green's situation even. More. JG is playing heavy minutes on the worst team in the league while being asked to self create and fight through three levels of defense by himself (compare his unassisted fgm rate to other off guards in the league... It ain't close.) leading to things like the 20 year old getting routinely doubled off of pnr screens. Who else in the league is asked to be in that type of context? Keldon Johnson? Not even close as his unassisted fgm rate is nearly the inverse of Green meaning his scoring profile is far more simpler with a lot more assisted looks.

 

Where is Cam Thomas on this list?