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Sengun: The reason we're losing

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by marky :), Jan 19, 2023.

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Trade Alperen Sengun for Mark Williams

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    22.2%
  2. Hell Yes

    21 vote(s)
    77.8%
  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Bunch of Jimmys here.

    DD
     
  2. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I'm bored, so I'll bite here. At the risk of turning this into a Harden debate, I feel like this is one of the most hackneyed, vapid statements that gets thrown around in the bball world... like "Kobe is clutch". When did Harden fold under pressure for us? He shot poorly in a couple series (and amazingly in others), but "folding under pressure" should imply that the team he was leading ever underperformed in the playoffs. And it didn't. Except arguably his second year against Portland. If anything, they outperformed expectations... Making the WCF in 2015 despite half the starting lineup being injured and Dwight being inept, coming closer than any team ever did to taking out Durant's [healthy] Warriors. In fact they would have if not for refs and injuries.

    Every star player in the world shoots worse in the playoffs to varying degrees because defenses tighten, and whistles go more silent. Some of those factors (especially the latter) affect some players (like Harden) more than others, causing some poor offensive showings. Let alone when that player was nearly single-handedly carrying their team's offense to the top of the league the entire regular season.

    I can't deny that Harden has had one or two inexplicably bad games at bad times that I can't explain, game 6 against SA standing out the most. But for each one of those, he's also had a few amazing games against a top tier playoff opponent, often with our backs against the wall.
     
    #122 SuperMarioBro, Jan 23, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
    mathor likes this.
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Harden's TS% drops more in the playoffs than most other superstars of his caliber(Wade, Kobe, Durant etc)

    He also is the type of player who if he is shooting poorly starts sulking and slow walks everywhere where those other guys like Kobe or Wade would do stuff like chase down blocks, dive for loose balls and just out hustle everyone with their elite conditioning when they are struggling from the field.
     
  4. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Incidentally, I think Harden's playoff defense is one of the more impressive things about him... He steps it up big time when it counts. He does take some plays off, sure, but so do the guys you mentioned. Kobe's TS% doesn't drop much because it was so bad to begin with lol. Harden still shoots significantly more efficiently in the playoffs than both Wade and Kobe. Plus, as I was trying to explain in my previous post, the differential for Harden is a product of his style of play, especially the way he draws fouls. It's also because he had a way heavier load than them during the regular season. It's not because he's "folding".
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I don't think it's significantly when you actually do adjusted ts%. Prime Kobe era league average ts% is quite different than prime Harden era league average ts%.

    I've watched Harden for 8 years. He definitely has a demeanor change when he's struggling from the field where it effects his pace on defense where he's more likely to slow walk everywhere effective team defense greatly.
     
  6. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I disagree. I think even if you adjusted for era, Harden would be the more efficient scorer than both, though I'm sure it would become slightly closer. Harden practically invented modern perimeter scoring efficiency.

    Plus, again, there are reasons for Harden's differential. He also had a way heavier offensive load than those guys during the regular season. The years where Kobe was burdened with a bad supporting cast, he never got out of the first round, and blew 3-1 leads.
     
    #126 SuperMarioBro, Jan 23, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Weak-minded usually means not being able to handle pressure or face hard challenges. When the going gets tough, weak-minded people either quit trying or perform much lower than they normally can. The opposite, strong-minded, points to people who rise to the occasions and are not afraid to meet challenges.
     
  8. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    I thought about that in depth.

    This mentally weak tag could be insulting.

    You are probably talking about Alphas, Betas and Omegas aka Wild Cards.

    Webber was probably a Beta player and Simmons is definitely a Wild Card with no shooting.

    Many people are not meant to be Alphas even if they tally 27 pts and 10 rbs.

    I had the opportunity to watch Webber at my young age, I didn't think he was a sure legend but a perennial All Star.

    A nice player to enjoy watching and Princeton fit him like a glove.

    He played in an era of the best players in the history of the game..
     
    #128 daywalker02, Jan 23, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
  9. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    It's probably all about semantics.

    Alpha, beta, etc. usually means pecking order or leadership.

    Mental toughness refers to the ability to deal with difficult challenges. Weak-minded people underperform in high pressure moments. An example of weak-mindedness: A 70% FT shooter misses four free throws in a row when his team just needs one more point to win. A 70% FT shooter should normally be able to make at least two shots in four tries. It has nothing to do with whether he is the alpha or not.
     
    daywalker02 likes this.
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    For sure I know what you mean.

    I come from the soccer background and there were teams who are at their best playing leading ball.

    When they score first they most likely win.

    Other teams play well against adversity, they concede goals against them and then they turn the score around and eke out a hard fought win.

    I fully understand that in CWebb's case he is probably the guy who plays leading ball better than against adversity.

    It is up to the fans to understand what they have and what they want from a player.

    I have never been a Bullets or Kings fan so I can't tell you more details about CWebb other than he seems to be a decent dude with great charisma, great voice, landed him a TV job quick.
     
    Easy likes this.
  11. marky :)

    marky :) Member

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    The Rockets without Sengun are 3-2 now.
    The Rockets with Sengun are 9-36

    This is all the mathematical evidence we need.
     
    harold bingo and ApacheWarrior like this.
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    the numbers are clear lol
     
    gfab-babyboi and Easy like this.
  13. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Start Fernando again? :D
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Is Sengun a talented player or a valuable player?
     
    harold bingo likes this.
  15. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Good question @KingCheetah , we won't know for 5 years probably.

    I wouldn't trade him for Mark Williams, nor would I for Jalen Duren, but Jalen duren looks really good .I wanted him
     
    harold bingo likes this.
  16. PeterKingX

    PeterKingX Member

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    Who is Mark Williams?
    Kevin Durant ever mentioned this guy?
     
  17. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    don't be a stupid person

     
    harold bingo, AroundTheWorld and Easy like this.
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Sengun and Porter are our two best players right now.

    DD
     
  19. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Bunch of Mark Williams.
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    lol @ trying to sneak in the guy who is the problem with the actual best player (Sengun), after spending ages saying Sengun is worse than DMo, etc.
     
    berkowsk likes this.

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