1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Did Jalen Green just become a chucker?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ShiniKashi, Jan 4, 2023.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Now doesn't that sound like moving goal posts?

    At the end of the day when it comes to scoring efficiency, (output/input) is what matters.

    And you asked what the .44 multiplier means in ts%.

    The .44 multiplier is because not all free throws take up a possession. Technical foul shots and "and-ones" do not, while there are more than two free throws on one possession with a three-shot foul. Research has determined that about 44% of all free throws take up possessions, thus .44 is used as the multiplier. The.96 multiplier accounts for team offensive rebounds in situations where a missed shot is tipped out of bounds by a defensive player, continuing the possession without an offensive rebound being credited.

    The entire point of ts% is to see how much input is needed to get the output they are generating. Input will be possessions. Output is pts.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    And two of those stats are irrelevant. Fg% is a useless stat and rebounds at the guard position is highly dependant on coaching schemes (who is seeking for the rebound and who's leaking etc).

    Giddey has more assists but on more turnovers also.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    You want to use raptor to judge judge defensive ability but don't even understand ts%.

    This is a joke.
     
  4. maypk

    maypk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    %6.2 swing in FG% is irrelevant but minutes per game and %1.2 swing in FT% is relevant? LMFAO. Just grow up.
     
  5. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Logically, the higher mpg works against you. Given that Giddey has significantly more rebounds and much better assist numbers, bringing up the fact that he also plays 4 fewer minutes per game really emphasizes Giddey's outperformance in those areas.

    Fouls? Who cares? Turnovers? 0.2 per game. Who cares?
     
    maypk likes this.
  6. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    If you think TS% is such a perfect metric, can you explain why it makes any sense to use 0.44 for a free throw attempt?
     
  7. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,410
    Likes Received:
    12,647
    Wouldn’t the biggest reason Giddeys FG% is higher than Greens be attributed to the fact that 77% of Giddeys shots are 2pt attempts while only 58% of Greens shots are 2pt attempts?

    Green slightly better FG% at the rim. Giddey slightly better FG% from 3. Green much better FG% on long 2s.
     
    O-dawg likes this.
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Yes fg% is irrelevant. Ts% actually accounts for how many possessions one takes up to get their points.

    Again, fg% is useless.
     
  9. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,664
    Likes Received:
    17,776
    Well when u compare that Green is averaging 6 free throw attempts and 4.8 ftm

    While
    Giddey is averaging 1.5 free throw attempts and 1.2 free throw made.

    That's a big difference no?
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  10. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 1999
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Not too bad compared to Giddey...

    upload_2023-1-6_13-51-31.png
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    The other big difference is ftr - 11% vs 35%.

    Massive difference and impressive for a sophomore guard and concerning for a 6'8" wing who isn't known as a shooter.

    Do refs hate Giddey that much or is he just not good at beating his man off the dribble(the most sustainable way to get consistent fta)?
     
    O-dawg likes this.
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    I already explained it.
     
  13. maypk

    maypk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    OK bud, Green is going to be a superstar and he's the 2nd best sophomore this season. Just stop bashing on KPJ if you think Green is having such an amazing season because he's literally less efficient KPJ right now.
     
  14. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,664
    Likes Received:
    17,776
    exactly a person who cherry pick stats wouldn't care if there are stats that point out green is doing better than Giddey in certain areas b/c it doesn't support the narrative that Giddey is having a better season.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Their efficiency gap is 1% off with KPJ being in the league two year more than Green.

    You know what's sad. KPJ has never had a season higher than Jalen Green's rookie year ts%.

    You know outside Rocket fandom the vast majority think Green is having the second best sophomore year right? Why are you lower on Green than non Rocket fans?
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,669
    Likes Received:
    22,375
    To be fair to Jalen I think EVERYONE on this team has become a "chucker" because there is no real offensive system that gets shots for all 5 guys within the flow of the offense. Everyone.... even Jabari... gets that tickle in their spine that says shoot the ball when the ball touches their hands because that might be the only chance they get.

    EG is like this now (especially camping out at damn near half court for stupid 3's), Garrison Matthews is DEFINITELY like this, and to an extent Jabari has been doing this to.

    Jalen.... yeah... right now he's a chucker too because you sort of have to be in this offense if you want to score in double figures. Silas is really screwing these guys into bad habit basketball that'll be difficult to unwind later in their careers. I've been on the "no harm, no foul" team with Silas over the past two years but right now he 100% is doing harm to these incredibly important young talents that we have given ALOT to acquire through the draft.

    Silas should be relieved of his duties ASAP. He is doing real damage to talent that the organization has worked really hard to acquire over YEARS. Talent's like Jalen and Jabari just don't grow on trees. Half a$$ coaches only there because of their father's do.
     
    TesseracT and fchowd0311 like this.
  17. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,786
    Likes Received:
    17,333
    do you mean second amongst guards right?

    I think my current sophmore performance

    1. Wagner
    2. Mobley
    3. Sengun

    Toss up, Barnes, Green, Giddey.

    Cade is injured
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Mine would be Wagner, Green, Mobley, Sengun and them it's a drop off.
     
  19. Roomba

    Roomba Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2017
    Messages:
    5,070
    Likes Received:
    17,553
    Juuuuuuust wanted to point out that OP finally corrected the misspelling of Jalen Green’s name :p

    in the immortal words of Kendrick Perkins

    carry on…
     
    Ancient Moabite likes this.
  20. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    8,915
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    How? Where is it being from? And where is it being moved to?

    But not all games have technical foul shots. And what research are you citing?

    Also, let's compare an "and 1 on a 2pt attempt", a made 3 pointer, and a fouled 3pt attempt resulting in 3 free throws:

    2 pt and 1 would have a TS% of 104%.

    A made 3 pointer would have a TS% of 150%.

    And 3 made free throws would have a TS% of 114%.

    Assuming I didn't make a mistake on the math (please check), 3 different kinds of possessions, each yielding 3 points, would have wildly different TS%. And you don't have an issue with that?
     

Share This Page