Thanks all for sharing good info, advice and persoanal experience. I got back late today. But I am very glad to see all the messages. Here is a little update. I attended an info session of the UTD EMBA program. I also talked to the director, Dr. Jasper Arnold about the program. Here are my impressions with EMBA vis a vis PMBA (part-time). EMBA is for the guys who already have more than 10 years on the job and need MBA to advance career right out of the gate. It emphisizes on inter-person skills, executive coaching and career management more than on specialized knowledge such as finance, or accounting, or IS, or supply chain. EMBA seems to in the age group of 35-40. Class is smaller and classmates are closer, relatively speaking. I also had an telephone interview with the director of the EMBA program at SMU, Mr. Tom Perkowski. He strongly encourages me to take EMBA over PMBA. That seems to be shaping up as my preference. Money is the only issue. I don't view an MBA degree as a way for my immediate financial or career gain. I view it as an opportunity to learn new and more knowledge and skills that I haven't had chance to learn as an engineer. I already reach my glass ceiling in my company as far as an engineer can go. The globalization and outsourcing make it imposible to be an engineer of life here in the US. And my senior management already strongly hint that I better be prepared to be a program manager more than a member of technical staff. So I feel the bottomline is an MBA degree wont hurt. And the company may be willing to share some of the financial burden. But at 67K with SMU EMBA and 50K with UTD MBA, I am still looking at a big expense in a 2-year span. On the other hand, a PMBA program at either SMU or UTD is relatively cheaper and longer. But at age of 39, I'll be a dinasour in class. I may learn a lot of special knowledge, but I don't think I will leave my technical area anytime soon any way. However, I will not have a chance to learn some special skills that are tailor-made in an EMBA program. In a simplistic analogy, PMBA is more book-smart, while EMBA is more street-smart, IMHO. Certainly, those are all my impressions so far. I am just a beginner in pursuing an MBA. Your info and advice are very valuable when I have to make a final dicision. RocketManJosh, I completely agree with you about the choice of school. I like SMU more, PMBA or EMBA. But it's a same ole same ole issue, all about money. With 2 little kids, I don't know if I want to spend the money that is supposed to be their college tuitions. Thanks all. I'll keep you updated if there is any significant progress. Meanwhile, please keep posting your thoughts, your info and your advice.
RocketManJosh, thanks for the links. All very good articles in different perspectives. Links saved IIMO, it depends on personal goals and professional directions. I think an MBA can help me further my choices in addition to my 15 years of experience in electrical engineering and software engineering. My choices are rather black and white for the moment. Be a program manager with my current company, or be a consultant with a big consulting firm, or take a mangement job and relocate to East Asia. God help me
Thanks, 4chuckie. Your advice is taken. I think I may need to view it as an investment issue rather than a pure education issue. I echo your take on quality of faculty. To be honest, I don't expect all will be good. I would be very grateful if half of the classes are somewhat useful in real life. From my MS degree, 25% would be generous
As a book rat, I would take a home equity loan if I can go to U of Chicago. I agree with what you said. There is a big perception gap in the business world in everything between tier one and tier two, not mention tier N where N > 2 Envy and sign. Next life please. I don't fear GPA or GRE or GMAT. I fear money. And I'm an Texan right now. So I'll stick with the programs in Dallas
That's the state of mind I am in right now, except that I am the only that have a master's degree in the family. How do you manage your time in the program? Does group study take a lot of your time after class?
If you mean McCombs, go for it. Very good program. Wish you the best. Let me know your GMAT scores if you want to share.
This topic came up a while back. Would you like to hear from an MBA from a non-first-tier school instead of just from 'what everyone's heard'? * Anecdotally, my MBA (from Tech) opened doors that would not have otherwise opened for me; an MBA was required for the fast track development program I entered. * First tier schools are important, but that's not the entire story (that some would have you believe), If you plan on going to Wall Street or into Banking for instance, a first-tier degree could make a big diffference; at times its like a fraternity. But I was second-tire, and was involved in taking one of my companies public only 2 years after graduating. My presence would not have been as well rec'd during the IPO meetings (with investment bankers and attorneys) w/o my MBA (seemed like everyone's 'credentials' were quickly known), but not only would I have been 'lost' in there without my MBA education, I would not have made it there in the first place. * There is nothing like experience, as some have said. But experience and self-study ( ) cannot replace a decent MBA program. And it's just ignorant to try to make that claim. Further, to only focus on the impact that an MBA may have on your initial job out of school is shortsighted (the hiring of new MBAs cycles up and down). It only takes 2 or 3 outstanding professors to make the entire MBA worthwhile. You may not happen to see 'MBA' listed as a new job requirement, but if you worked at it at all (and you maintain some humility since you will still have a lot to learn), you will perform much better in your interviews and will be much better prepared for many jobs, particularly Sr Mgmt. * Going to a second-tier school may not mean that you get hired at 6 figures, but you will be better prepared to get there quicker than others (it only took 3 years to my first six-figure year). You will still need to make good career decisions and excel at your job to get there. And when you get into Sr Mgmt, it will be invaluable to you.
I work for a large investment consulting firm. We advise very large institutional clients. A top tier MBA is ESSENTIAL here for advancement in most departments. Graduates from top schools start at 125K+ @ my firm. A good friend of mine, a Chicago grad, started @ 175. I have a PhD in Mathematics, and recently thought about getting an MBA just for the heck of it. I even took the GMAT. The missus wasn't especially keen on the idea though. I would say if you can get into a good school, by all means, go for it.
Sorry for not responding sooner... Just a little background on my education which should help you understand where I am coming from... I graduated with a B.S. in mathematics from MTSU in the spring of '95. I went straight to grad school but at a different place and got a raw deal (at least I felt at the time), got burned out and after 2 years, quit. However, I was trying to get a M.S. in mathematics. After sorta screwing around for 2 years, working for a bank, I got my job I have now (really lucked into it). The guy who hired me was an engineer but had an MBA, so was the guy I worked with on most projects. They both felt it was beneficial for me to go back to get an MBA, especially considering I was going to be doing some finance/accounting related stuff but I had little to no background in it. I thought about on-line, but I am an old school traditionalist, who enjoys the classroom setting. Besides, I feel it is more work to do things by correspondence, via the Internet, etc and you wind up teaching yourself, which is never fun, IMO. Also, as mentioned earlier, cost was a big factor and I never had the slightest intention of quitting my present job so I could get this big raise now that I have an MBA. I was doing it to conquer the demons of a failed master's attempt (even though it was in math). Vanderbilt was probably the best option for me if I really wanted to try to impress someone and they have this executive MBA program that is done exclusively on the weekends. But it costs like 25 grand or something like that, I believe, a semester! My company will reimburse me of my tuition and books if I get at LEAST a C in my classes, but they have a monetary limit in a year's time and unfortunately it is 7% of what it costs in a year to go to Vandy. But I digress - I had to take the GMAT (of course) and then 6 freaking prerequisite classes since I have a technical degree (that is what is taking so long). I started in the spring of 2001, don't go in the summers, and take 2 classes per semester. I now have 4 left - 2 this fall and 2 in the spring. It was VERY HARD to get used to spending time on these classes! You have to remember that it had been close to 4 years since I had to do any homework/assignments. You get spoiled, so the sooner you can go back, the easier it will be as it gets hard to dedicate time to this stuff if you have been away for awhile. The classes are pretty much reading, doing a paper (although it is not like that in every class), group work, and tests (most of them are essay but not all). The group work can be tough because if you get in a class and don't know anyone, you have to take your chances that the people who are assigned to your group will "pull their weight". I always try to get in a group where I know at least one of the people really well although it is even better to know everyone in the group really well. Nothing is more frustrating than wondering if John Doe is doing his part in some project and that project is due in a week or two. Hope this helps. EDIT - I will add that I usually spend a lot of time in the beginning of the semester on my classes as I try to gauge a feel of how they are going to be. By the middle of the semester, I usually have an idea. Finance required more time as did economics, but many management classes did not require much other than doing the assignments. I probably average about 6 to 8 hours a week on working on my 2 classes (3 to 4 per class is a rough average).
I got into Vanderbilt and Rice, but decided to take a job with an energy trading company for the immediate big bucks...and got my MBA in the evenings at UH. Did I learn a lot? Yes. My salary has tripled since 1997, when I started school. Did the MBA lead to the salary increase? No. I'm pretty sure that it had more to do with my hard work. It may have helped when I was about to finish my degree bc my company gave me a raise to keep me from shopping around. Do I regret my move? Nah. I make as much as the Rice guys anyway. However, my buddy went to Columbia and the stories he tells me made me green with envy. It sounds awesome. However, I couldnt borrow 40G at the time for private school.
For those who've been through the exec mba program -- especially anyone after years in business -- did you LEARN from it? I've considered exec MBA's and am still tempted, but have no interest in going to school full time, nor any interest in what jobs it would qualify me for as i am currently self-employed and wouldn't change that for anything. My interest in the MBA, is therefore knowledge based. Once (if) i complete it, the paper itself will have little bearing on my prospects as my clients will not know (nor care) and i will not be presenting it to employers. But will I be better for it? Is the knowledge and skills worth the effort? (as an aside -- for you youngsters starting out your careers, i must concur with the theme here. Go to the best school you can. Work hard. Do well. THe cost of the school -- although HUGE by your current standards -- will be more than offset very quickly by higher earing potential provided you do well, and you study in an area that genuinely interests you).
Definitely For the record, I realize the fact that there is the perception gap and the brand recognition issue in the business world w.r.t. the rankings of everything. However, I don't religiously buy into that when it comes to select my MBA program. If I have the means to attend a better-known program, I'll go for it. Otherwise, I'll be realistic and concentrate on learning.
Manny, thanks for sharing your experience. I am a little surpprised that you were required 6 prerequisite classes, with your math degree and background. I would think that math background would greatly benefit quantitative analysis of everything in economics or financing or accounting, namely probability, statistics and stochastics. Is my perception correct? Actually, I am counting on my statistics courses and some engineering economics courses taken before to avoid prerequisite classes. I think I need to do more due dilligence with the school w.r.t. prerequisites. I think time management will be the most chellanging part of the whole effort once in the program. I totally agree with your take on study groups. I had similar experience in an Engineering Managment course where we were required to form a 4-person group to do a case study, a final project.
Just wanted to throw this in...I think it's a travesty that we're only No. 2 . http://rankings.ft.com/rankings/emba/rankings.html
Well I had 2 semesters of economics and one semester of calculus-based probability and statistics (required for my major but I absolutely detested the class - nearly made an A). But I still had to take a finance class, a computer information systems class, intro to business law, intro to accounting, intro to marketing, and a management class that talked about operations management as well as some organizational behavior theory. Yea, I would definitely do the due dilligence. Once you decide where to go, I would send a transcript of your undergrad record to their MBA department as they should have someone who analyzes undergrad transcripts - that way you know immediately if you can get out of economics or not. Good luck.
this was a good topic.... im also dealing with the dilema of going to mba school. i would like to ask for everyone opinion on UH's mba program. do you think it's worth it? im getting mixed reviews from everyone and then i read on the board people sayig go to top 25 school ONLY. going out of state is SUPER expensive... and so UH, UT came to mind cuz i want to stay in texas. rice is out of question..i cant afford it. also for those who have gone through mba school... do you think it was worth going for "book smarts", salary raise, and time? or would i still get all those from working experience and hard work? please give me your feedback.
say you already got your mba from a good school, not spectacular, but still respectable, such as a..U of H?..what and how many job oppurtunities are out there for you? what you do with your mba, is that a endless list, or a extremly limited one? and say you do get a job, what exactly do you have to do, and where does your experience of getting your MBA come into play? thanks
One more perspective. I'm starting the MBA program at Temple University in Philly next month. While Temple's an up-and-coming school and is now top 75 or 50 or something like that, it's not top 25 by any stretch of the imagination. I'd heard the same thing as everyone else here that it's top 15 or bust, and I struggled with the decision of whether or not to go to a top 75 school or just skip it and save my money. But when I looked into it, I realized that it's not that cut-and-dried. First of all, I'm planning on going into marketing and not one of the hypercompetitive fields like investment banking, management consulting, finance, etc. If I was considering those careers, I would probably not get an MBA unless it was from a top 15 school. Second, I know that I'm going to work and live in Philly after I get my MBA. So, while a top 15 MBA is certainly highly respected in Philly, a Temple MBA ain't half bad. There are literally thousands of Temple MBA alumni in this area -- many more than Wharton in fact (they all go to NYC after they graduate). So the alumni network fits my needs. Now, if I were planning on getting a job somewhere else like the West Coast or even overseas, of course the Temple brand would be insufficient (maybe even useless). Third, I'm switching careers. So for me, I really needed a credential to crack into the business world -- even if it wasn't from a top school. Lastly, I asked around and found that many of my friends in the area were supervised by Temple MBAs. So the Temple brand did not seem to be an impediment to future advancement. They had found that an MBA's brand was key in securing your first job (and getting interviews) but, after your first job outside of business school, your experience was most important. The clincher was getting awarded a full scholarship which reduced my costs dramatically (but I'll still be taking out loans for living expenses as well as not having any income for the next two years outside of loans). So, I'd say that, while I do agree to a certain extent that a going to a lower tier business school might not be worth the money, I'd also say that it kind of depends on your individual situation. What industry do you want to go into after you get an MBA? Is there a particular region you're going to work in after school? (If so, a school with an excellent regional rep might be sufficient.) Are there alumni from your potential school living in the area and who are serving in prominent positions? Having said all that, there are still some schools that aren't worth the money. Temple was the only business school in Philly (outside of Wharton which rejected my ass) that I felt was worth the money -- and even then I wasn't positive it was worth it until I did the research. But I wouldn't have wasted my money on Drexel, for example. Check with me again in 3 years, though, and I'll let you know if it was worth the $$$.
