The thing that has p!ssed me off more than anything else about this is that people are making judgement on the Phil/Shaq/Kobe divorce as if it is all about next season...idiots like Chad Ford who say Kobe should have picked the Clips b/c they provide a better situation. That is the biggest load of crap...how can he even begin to suggest that any team run by Donald Sterling will be better than the Lakers? That's like saying A-Rod should have gone to the Marlins, rather than the Yankees, because the Marlins have a better team RIGHT NOW (since they won the Series). Whether or not any of the Heat players amount to anything, why do people want to assume the Lakers will stop going all-out to remain an elite team throughout the rest of Kobe's stay there? They have a history of finding superstars and winning championships...it started way before Shaq...and it will continue well after he is gone. What if the Lakers wait a year or two, see if the players mesh, and if not, use their assets and cap money to sign another superstar big man, a la Shaq in 1996? Is L.A. going to stop becoming a premier player location because Shaq and Phil aren't there?...Of course not. I, for one, think Dr. Buss, Kupchack and the Lakers front office maybe a very prudent, shrewd business move in deciding to end the Shaq era in favor of a new Kobe-led era. Although he may be a remotivated monster for another year or two, what about in four years when Shaq will be 36? And still pulling down $30 million or more? With or without Kobe, that team would have a Shaq-sized albatross, then have to start from scratch anyway when that deal expired... WHY NOT START THE JOB NOW? With Kobe in tow, the Lakers have guaranteed themselves one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 6 years, at least. With Shaq and Phil, they may have remained a contender for another year or two, but after that, in the 2006-07 season, they would have to start all over without any marquee veteran to lead this new team. On the other hand, the Lakers have instead positioned themselves to completely reconstruct a new team around Kobe. This way, by the time that same 2006-07 season roles around, they could have a young, experienced team just hitting its prime, yet still anchored by one of, if not THE, premier perimeter player of his era in Bryant. And Kobe will STILL be only 28! I am convinced, if it truly did come down to Shaq&Phil vs. Kobe&Rudy that the Lakers made the right choice. And so did Kobe. What do you think?
You missed a key point of the Lakers greatness.....the man in Memphis, Jerry West. He was the one that constructed a lot of those great teams. Kobe and Brand could have provided a good one two punch, but Kobe wanted to be selfish. He is destined to be a playoff (not title, big difference) contender.
Factor in Maggette and I can't think of a team with 3 better players and they are also all young. It'll be entertaining to see Kobe pull his best T-mac impression from the Magic days.
I don't believe Kobe and the Fakers will win as long as Yao and T-Mac are together with Rox. Kobe at best is equal to T-Mac, but Rox has Yao!! Kobe and co. cannot win the west, leave alone the NBA champion.
west didn't become GM until 82-83, after both kareem and magic were on board. while i guess he should get credit for maintaining the thing throughout the 80's by picking worthy (though i don't understand how the best team in the nba had the #1 pick) and adding players, the essential players were there before him. as for shaq, well, shaq wanted to go to LA period. orlando could've had a US mint printing money for their organization and they still couldn't have kept shaq. he wanted the hollywood spotlight. good for jerry that he created the cap room to make it happen i guess, but if he's the GM of cleveland, he doesn't get shaq. and while i'm more fuzzy on the kobe situation, didn't kobe pretty much force his way out of charlotte for a big market team (if not necessarily LA) and didn't west just happen to have a good center lying around that he didn't need anymore thanks to shaq wanting to go there. so while west should get credit for making it happen, if he's not in LA working for the premiere organization in the league, he doesn't get shaq and kobe and he isn't a genius. so, basically, while west has certainly done a good job, it hasn't been nearly as hard as it would seem (especially since he didn't even build the showtime lakers). since kobe is still there, LA will still look like a great place to go and kupchak will probably get to get guys that other teams simply can't get because of the LA factor. so i don't think the situation is that dire for kobe in this respect.
I Agree Francis 4 Prez... The Lakers, even since Gearge Mikan, have always been about superstars and winning...just look at the lineage: Mikan-West-Baylor-Chamberlain-Kareem-Magic-Shaq-Kobe Whether it's the 50's, 80's or 2000's, the Lakers have always maintained a level of greatness that is unequaled in the NBA. Even the Celtics, who still lead in overall titles, haven't had a good team for the better part of two decades running with no revival in sight. West was just another cog in the machine, whether as a player or general manager. Just as Shaq was and Kobe will continue to be. What makes the Lakers the Lakers is the same thing that makes the Yankees the Yankees...the aura. Regardless of whether you love them or hate them, the Lakers are inevitable...like death and taxes. There is no reason to believe the loss of one player or coach, no matter how great, will be anything other than a 1-3 year hiccup in the winning tradition of this franchise. And besides...didn't the Lakers win after Phil, not Jerry West, entered the picture? I give more credit to Jackson for managing this team to 3 titles than I do West for handing him the pieces. That's like saying Greg Popovich is an architectural mastermind for having the good fortune to win TDuncan in the lottery.
I love revisionist history. Where were the Grizz BW (Before West)? Root for him or root against him as I aways have. But, please, let's not overlook his ability just because he has built teams against whom we compete.
the way i look at it is right now when u look at the rosters of the lakers and clippers the arent that much different, lakers got odom clippers got brand clippers got kaman for watever hes worth lakers got grant, lakers have butler clippers have richardson, lakers have kobe clippers have maggette, clippers have livingston lakers got..payton....so now if u take out kobe and put him on the clippers, they will have a better chance of winning in the west than the lakers do with odom and butler IMO. Kobe without shaq is like steak without flavor, granted kobe is still the steak of the nba, but hes just a flavorless steak without shaq...im hungry..anyways who knows kobe mite go to jail...so thatll suck for the clippers if they had signed him..for now the clippers can forget abt richardson and try to get a great player next offseason
okay, okay, LA is a great place for superstars, and they want to go there. but what about memphis, who would have thought the grizzles would be so damn good 2 years ago. nobody. it was all west, he is a genius.
Another thing to look at is how much of an arrogant prick Kobe is turning out to be. Would you want to play with him. And don't say 'If you want to win you would' b/c there are other teams that will win.
"Greatness" revolves around great players. After Magic and before Shaq + Kobe, the Lakers were not great. They made the playoffs every year, but so did teams like the Blazers, Rockets and Jazz. For LA to be great again, they will have to get Kobe some help (preferably a big man). In case you did not notice, great big men are rare these days. In case you didn't notice, Kobe is not the kind of teammate that others players will be knocking the doors down to come play with, especially after the perception that he ran Phil & Shaq out of town to be the man. I don't see LA winning for a while. If you are truly trying to put yourself in a better position to build around Kobe, then why trade Shaq for players (with bad contracts, save Butler) that will come off the books after Shaq would have?
I'm not trying to deny West any credit for the Lakers or the Grizz...I'm just saying he is one of many Laker Legends. He is not bigger than the franchise, although he might be in Memphis. Yes, he has built a good team there, but they only have 1 playoff appearance under their belt - same as the Rockets. So if West is a genius for getting his team a 1st-round exit, then let's include CD and a host of other GM's in that mystical "genius" category as well. As for the Lakers, I know that big men like Shaq are rare. But big men like Rasheed and Ben Wallace are not, and they were good enough to win a title last year without any single teammate in Kobe Bryant's class (don't even try to say Rip or Billups, neither are even close to top 5). If a team with Sheed and Ben on the inside can defeat a Shaq-led Lakers team in the Finals, why is it mandatory to pair a dominant big man with Kobe? There are plenty of PF's who could team with Kobe for a championship, and I see no reason to think the Lakers wouldn't go all out to get one of them.
Laker's assests in two years (Summer 2006): <a HREF="http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/contracts">Contracts</a> Luke Walton (resigned in 2005) Sasha Vujacic (drafted in 2004) Caron Butler Kareem Rush Lamar Odom Kobe Brian Grant will likely extend in 2005, but can't really consider him a trade asset in 2006 (in a game play sense). There will be some draft picks and free agents added over the next few years, but unlikely to get any players of significance. Butler and Odom are nice players, but not elite. Walton & Rush are journeymen with Sasha a late 1st round unknown at this point in time. Cap Space? With Odom, Brian Grant and Kobe having healthy contracts, there won't be any significant cap space available in Summer 2006.
They also need a viable center. Speaking of <i>plenty of PF's who could team with Kobe for a championship</i>, could you mention some that you have in mind? Kobe had a dominant center in Shaq and they couldn't win a championship this past season. Malone's age & injuries hampered the team's ability to have a competent PF on the floor, so wouldn't it take at least a competent 4 or 5 and the remaining position manned by an above average player?
Mango, I was going for a more overall view of the situation. Many deals become available over the course of 3 seasons that I could not possibly forecast. Who would have ever thought you could get Shaquille O'neal for Odom, Butler and Grant? I am not going to waste my time putting together trades that will work in RealGM, because often the type of deals involving superstar-type players come out of nowhere. Here are a few recent examples: Tmac - Steve/Cat/Cato Shaq - Odom/Butler/Grant Kmart - 3 1st rounders Boozer - suprise FA defection And those are just the most recent. Now Mango, can you honestly say any of those deals was predictable 3 years ago? Of course not... As for possible targets, however, I did have a few in mind: CBosh ZRandolph PGasol JO'neal EBrand BradMiller Pairing any of these PF's with a serviceable C (Ratliff/Dampier/Magloire) would be more than enough inside support for a team with Kobe on the wing. I see no reason to believe the Lakers won't have any opportunities to go after any players of this caliber in the next 3 years. Throw in a decent PG and SF, and you have a solid team.
That's very true. Kobe has burned a lot of bridges. He had not been the most popular teammates in Laker's lockroom before this summer. Now, everybody in the league perceives him as a selfish guy. Heck, even a large portion of Laker fans hate him now. BTW, Letterman said last night something like "Kobe did the right thing to go back to the Lakers for loyalty's sake. The last time he was not loyal to somebody, it cost him a 4-million dollar ring." LOL.
TMac - Steve/Cat/Cato Lakers equivalent scenario Steve was a #2 pick, Odom was a high pick and would probably have to be traded for a PF. They would need to find a team with a quality PF and that was demanding to play with Kobe. Trying to determine who that would be. Shaq - Odom/Butler/Grant A reverse scenario of the trade that just happened is what the Lakers would be looking for. So that would leave them with Kobe, the dominant center of PF acquired in trade, Rush, Walton, Sasha and other lower salary players. Seems similar to the team that the Lakers just had. KMart As i pointed out earlier, the Lakers won't have any appreciable cap space for the next several years, so how could the Lakers do a sign-n-trade like that? Boozer Need cap space to do that deal.....which the Lakers won't have for the next several years. <hr color=blue> As i pointed out earlier, they won't have cap space for major Free Agent signing(s) and they will have limited assets to trade with. <i>Scenario</i> C Bosh decides he wants to play with the Lakers. Without significant cap space, he can't sign as a Free Agent for a Max contract. The Lakers say they will trade 3 first round picks and Lamar Odom for C Bosh + salary.</i> Unless there is some way to guarantee that at least one of the picks is a top 5, why would Toronto do the deal? Bottom line: The Lakers need cap space to acquire a top flight PF - Center or else do a reverse Shaq and trade some or all of what they just acquired in the recent Miami trade.
All valid points Mango... I was also figuring in three years' worth of first-rounders and MLE as well to fill out the supporting roles. What about something like this... S&T for Amare Stoudamire, giving up picks and Odom, plus change... Then, draft a young PG to develop... Sign a free agent C for an exception in the $6M range (maybe Ratliff) This would be the new team Ratliff/Grant Stoudamire/Slava Butler/Walton Kobe/Rush Young PG/low-priced backup veteran Something like that, I think, would give the Lakers an excellent team and doesn't seem too implausible.
