1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Astounding Kobe/Shaq stat...

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by BrianKagy, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    4,957
    True. 2 pts=100% though, 60% is closer to 50%.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    Where did you get those stats? Something tells me they are not right.
     
  3. snowmt01

    snowmt01 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    1
    I actually don't know the exact number. But Shaq is a career
    54% FT shooter. If he hits more clutch FTs, it will bring the
    percentage to about 60%.
     
  4. francis 4 prez

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    22,025
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    shaq is now clutch because (assuming the numbers are right*) he shoots slightly worse than his appallingly bad regular ft% at crunch time? i realize your implying that if you foul shaq every single time in the final minutes (which happens because he's so dominant, true, but also because he's so damn bad at ft's) it is like shooting 60%, however, that doesn't make him clutch or valuable in the final minutes.

    he got to the finals with a good guard who hit clutch shots and had a drive to win, penny hardaway. he didn't do anything except get swept repeatedly until he found another guard with an even greater drive to win and who was even more clutch and better in the fourth quarter, kobe bryant.

    shaq has never shown that drive to win. to suck it up and take a team on his back when the chips were down. once the chips got down, they stayed down and shaq got swept a lot. once kobe bryant came along and essentially wouldn't let the lakers lose, shaq got some rings. was shaq the more important of the two in terms of overall success? yes. does shaq get a ring without kobe bryant's amazing clutchness and drive? no.

    in fact, during the 01-02 playoffs when the lakers were playing the spurs and kings, there was an 8 game stretch where shaq averaged 3 points in the 4th quarter. the most important games of the season (WC semis and WCFs) and shaq does nothing. but the lakers still went 4-4 in those 8 games because kobe tore the spurs up in the 4th quarter and horry hit that huge shot in game 4. shaq basically did nothing in the 4th quarter and yet his team was marching through the two best teams in the rugged western conference. he needed kobe (or at least someone who actually put it all out there to win and wasn't a huge ft liability in the 4th quarter).

    *which apparently they aren't b/c apparently you just made them up
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132
    Actually I was talking about the original poster. I would be surprised if Shaq's winning percentage is that high without Kobe.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,464
    Likes Received:
    40,036
    That is because Steve was guarding him.

    Everyone gets 50 on Steve.

    :)

    DD
     
  7. Tom Archer

    Tom Archer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    0
    What ppl are forgetting when they say that Shaq only has a couple of more years is that he brings other great players to the team via his recruiting that will continue to play when he's gone. I'd take Shaq for the fact that he is and will be the best in the game for at least 2 or 3 more years and have him recruit players that will help the team's continued success once his superiority has waned.
     
  8. LiLStevie3

    LiLStevie3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    1,160
    Likes Received:
    3
    Shaq's career playoff averages:
    27.2 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg

    Shaq's career regular season averages:
    27.1 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 2.9 apg, 2.6 bpg

    Shaq's career playoff scoring average is 3rd all time behind Michael Jordan and Jerry West. His 33.7 career scoring average in the NBA finals is 2nd all time behind Rick Barry. He has 3 NBA Finals MVP trophies.

    I'd say Shaq's playoff numbers are every bit as good, if not better, than his regular season numbers.

    Is Shaq a "clutch" player? Probably not, although he does tend to hit free throws when they are needed, which is why the hack-a-Shaq philosophy never works. The trailing team never ends up catching up.

    Is Kobe Bryant more "clutch" than Shaq? Of course and by far. However, if Shaq wasn't there, would Kobe even be in a position to be clutch? The 4th quarter is Kobe Bryant's, but quarters 1-3 are Shaq's and those quarters are what allow Kobe to be in a position for his late game heroics.

    One other point. How many times in the 4th quarter have you seen teams collapse in on Shaq, giving the Fisher's, Fox's, Horry's, Shaw's, etc etc. those wide open 4th quarter 3 pointers that we all hate so much? He is still more important to the Lakers than Kobe Bryant, even in the playoffs. If you're talking about entering a 4th quarter tied with only one, sure, I'd take Kobe Bryant. But if you're talking about going through an entire playoffs, give me Shaquille O'Neal.
     
  9. LiLStevie3

    LiLStevie3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    1,160
    Likes Received:
    3
    Correction:
    After the completion of this year's Finals, Shaq's career NBA Finals scoring average is now 32.6 which is 3rd all time behind Rick Barry and Michael Jordan.
     
  10. pradaxpimp

    pradaxpimp Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,025
    Likes Received:
    71
    Kobe's also a rapist.
     
  11. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    692
    Let's see him try to recruit quality players when his salary eats up most of the cap. The only reason he got GP and Malone to go to the Lakers is because they're already old and they haven't won a ring. Let's see Shaq get someone relatively young to play alongside him for peanuts. Ain't gonna happen 'cause right now, every decent to good player under 30 is trying to get their payday. Shaq is screwed in Miami. The Lakers would've committed franchise suicide if they extended his contract.
     
  12. Kurupt the Kingpin

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    1
    That's what Jerry Reinsdorf said in 1998 when he broke up the Bulls. What amazing success they've had since then. Now Buss is heading down the same pathway...
     
  13. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    4,957
    That's fine, but he still isn't winning in the playoffs without clutch preformances from his teammates.
     
  14. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,549
    Likes Received:
    4,957
    The Bulls made the right decision to start all over, Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman weren't going to get them another ring at their advanced ages. The Bulls just made horrible player decisions after their run ended... Besides the Lakers aren't getting rid of everyone, they're just getting rid of Shaq.
     
  15. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,320
    Likes Received:
    29,856
    He could only bring in over-the-hill players who want to win a ring before retirement. These players will wane before Shaq does.
     
  16. r-fan-since-81

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 1999
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    116
    Err.................................Allegedly
     
  17. LiLStevie3

    LiLStevie3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    1,160
    Likes Received:
    3
    Never denied that if you read the rest of my post.
     
  18. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    692
    Exactly. Besides, it's not like Shaq has the work ethic of a Michael Jordan. If he got that extension, he would've come into Lakers training camp at 500 lbs.
     
  19. pradaxpimp

    pradaxpimp Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,025
    Likes Received:
    71
    Is that you Romey?
     
  20. vwiggin

    vwiggin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    2
    True. But Shaq made Kazaam. So I think overall their crimes against humanity are just about even. :p

    ...
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now