[Official] Astros Off Season

Odo was terrible. he took a lot of grief because he actually sucked and continued to suck in Atl. he was clearly an odd ball on the team and nobody misses him. He's still one of the worst pitchers on a non stacked rotation so that doesn't even matter

 

He had a 3.75 ERA this season, and a 102 ERA+ overall with us, he was ever so slightly above league average.

Astros fans have completely lost perspective on what actual bad pitching looks like.

 

bad pitching = Odo. it was a wonderful day when he was finally gone. it was way overdue

 

If they can't sign JV, do they go after another starter? If not, would they still shop another starter (Urquidy?) for an upgrade at another position? Or need depth and losing 2 starters is no good. I guess Brown would replace Urquidy.

 

Get it done Crane

 

The Yankees are supposedly going to offer Rizzo the QO after he turned down his option. I cannot see the Astros giving up a draft pick and exceeding the qualifying offer for Rizzo with his back issues. My guess is that they will try to coax Abreu from the White Sox or see how serious the Padres are about keeping Josh Bell.

I know some people have some concerns over Abreu being 35 years old and his sheer size. I would just point out that the only reason the Astros have a shot at him is because of his age. Otherwise, he would be getting a 5-6 year contract. Also, while 35 isn't young, he has never had an OPS+ of under 117 and his lowest OPS has been at .800, and his career OPS is .860 with a career OPS+ of 135.

If the Astros add him, it is a major addition to the middle of the line up. There is a real chance that another team comes in and offers a three year deal and the Astros miss out on him.

It is also possible if the market for Contreras never gets really strong, that the Astros add him and have him split time between first base and catcher. That would allow Alvarez to get some time at DH still, and the Astros could target a left fielder like Conforto and possibly resign Gurriel at a low number and then limit him to 100 starts at first.

A lot of things are possible, and it will come down to money offered around the league. The Astros will be flexible unless they get Verlander decided early, in which case you may see them up their offers to ensure they end up with one of Abreu, Contreras, Bell or Contreras. Then try to squeeze out a secondary piece like Brantley or Haniger later on in free agency.

 

Agreed. Odo was exactly what the Astros should have expected from him. What I think no one expected was that our entire starting lineup would be so much better than that, making Odorizzi expendable. Maybe the guy was an *******, but he didn't underperform expectations, he just wasn't quite good enough for this historically good pitching staff. No shame in that.

But if this Astros' championship window eventually does close and we go back to being a middling to good team, fans should expect to have at LEAST 1-2 guys like Odorizzi in the lineup. That's normal, not what we have been blessed with these last few years.

 

You're right, it's not going to happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

BTW, I would consider a great offseason to be

Bringing back JV/Yuli/Vazquez/Maldy and extending Tucker.

I see Vazquez as a huge upgrade at the catcher position. I'm thinking by mid season Leon or Dirden will be playing CF.

I could see a middle of the order bat like Abreu or Bell being added. If that happens Yuli's gone.

 

Yep. Odo may be bad in comparison to the other Astros pitchers, but overall, he was average in Houston. The way he pitched in Houston was better than the 4th starters the Yankees and Phillies threw at the Astros in this postseason.

I was completely for getting rid of him as there was just too many good pitchers in Houston (i.e., no room on 26-man roster).

 

I am sure that there are some, especially on the offensive side that are indifferent or may even say something positive about him. He didn't come to the Astros with the plan to be an *******.

I will just say that he was not well liked but Dusty Baker, at least some of the coaching staff and a number of players, particularly on the pitching side. They didn't think he was a good fit and they knew he didn't really want to be there, so they were not upset to see him leave because he was very particular about how and when he would pitch, and did not go along with the way that the existing Astros pitchers did things.

The Astros have a very strong culture in place on the pitching side. When Justin Verlander has his own system and way to go about it, that is accepted because he is one of the 25-35 best pitchers to ever play. When someone is a middling #3-4 starter, the same leeway isn't given and Odo didn't seem to realize that.

I don't doubt that if they saw him in the off season they would speak to him. I will just say there was a sense of relief when he was gone, because it didn't work out.

 

They signed him before last season when we had a metric ton of questions in the rotation (hard to imagine right). Framber was hurt, and we weren't sure how long. LMJ was in his first full season after TJ. Garcia and Javier were unproven, and Verlander was out with TJ.

In hindsight it was largely a waste of money because we ended up not really needing him, but I'm OK playing that safe. Better to have a decent starter you don't need much than to risk running truly terrible pitchers out there frequently and stressing what good ones you do have.

 

I could be wrong, but wasn't part of the new CBA that while teams would gain a draft pick if a player they extended the QO to signed elsewhere, they did away with the penalty of taking a draft pick away from the team who signed the player with the QO attached?

So I don't believe any team would forfeit a draft pick for signing Rizzo, even if the Yanks extend him the QO offer.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

I didn't have a problem with the Astros signing him. As you said, we did not know what would happen with McCullers and it was expected that Valdez would be out a long time.

Luckily, we did not really need him. Odo got his money and we got security. He didn't hamstring the team financially and we were able to dump him at the deadline.

 

That I don't know for sure, if that is the case then that changes the scenario somewhat, but I would still be surprised if the Astros would offer him more than the QO.

 

LOL now a Ranger

 

Also, this is just my opinion but I don't think it is a certainty that Verlander comes back. I think that Crane really wants him on the team, but I also think there are limitations to that. The number I heard from people around the Astros was 3/135 as what Verlander wanted. This was before the post season, and maybe he no longer can get that number. I don't think the Astros will go to that amount. I don't know how high will Crane will go, but that is a lot of money. So if a good team in a market Verlander likes, comes in and offers that kind of money, I think he is gone.

Having said that, I am not even sure it is in the Astros best interest to offer close to 3/135 because the Astros pitching staff is very deep and there is a real chance that Javier becomes a genuine ace next year. If the Astros lose out on Verlander, they would be in a position to upgrade at both LF and 1st and probably bring back Montero.

With the Astros pitching, the return of Montero and adding two bats, the Astros would possibly be a better team.

It isn't a clear-cut proposition.

Would you rather have Verlander or Abreu and Contreras and Montero?

 

Astros 2023 rotation without Verlander:

Framber Valdez - Age 29 next season
Cristian Javier - Age 26 next season
Lance McCullers - Age 29 next season
Luis Garcia - Age 26 next season
Jose Urquidy - Age 28 next season
Hunter Brown - Age 24 next season

That's a six man, championship caliber rotation that is all under age 30!

We should not be in the market for a high dollar starting pitcher. We have to make spending decisions with ruthless efficiency if we want to continue to win. It's exactly what got us here (Cole, Springer, Correa decisions). We have clear and obvious holes in our starting lineup that we need to allocate money towards -- 1B, OF. We have young stars who we need to extend (Tucker, Javier, Valdez). We have to be very smart about these free agency decisions if we want to continue celebrating World Series runs. Giving $100 million to a 39 y/o with recent injury concerns is unwise.