Do we overrate Moochie?

Moochie is a solid backup. He probably would start on 8-10 teams in the NBA, but by no means is he a "great 3 point shooter." He shot 28% this year from the arc which is respectable, not great.

He is usually pretty clutch as The Cat noted, but does have that habit of overdribbling. Still, all in all, Mooch is a solid backup who the Rockets hopefully will bring back next year.

I still can't see Dallas giving Moochie their entire exception, seems a little excessive when they have Eisley already who is a good backup himself.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

As I've mentioned here somewhere before, living in Dallas I've seen Eisley a LOT. Moochie, on balance, is the superior player. Eisley is unable to take his man off the dribble, and this takes away from his effectiveness as a true PG. And he is not a dependable spot up shooter, hence his weakness at SG. They are about equal defensively altho Eisley may be a little taller. Both are tough, gritty, in your face players. And as for the hair,
well...

 

Dreamshake,

While I agree with your assertion, I'd argue the Eisley example. If Eisley fans could argue his value in comparison to Mooch, then why is Dallas supposedly hot for da Mooch?

Mooch fits very well in our system and with this particular team. While I think he could start for other teams, he would probably not fit in as well. The Rox situation is tailor made for what he brings to the game and hence my belief he is one of the keys to our future success.

Good role/bench players have to bring something special to the game when they come in. Mooch has become our Cassell...exciting, up tempo player off the bench. While DL is getting some attention as our new 6th man (and I hope he continues to improve), I'd suggest we have him already (if we sign him) in Mooch.

Underated - yeah
Underappreciated - no way!

I know, you're just trying to keep us sane and I appreciate your wake-up. However, I tried to think of a back-up PG I'd rather have than Mooch and I couldn't think of one.

- G. Anthony
- Eisley
- A. Williams
- B. Jackson
- Lue
- A. Carter
- Avery J.
- Snow
- etc.

If someone has a name they like better than Mooch toss it out. I'm getting older and have probably forgotten a couple of studs that would make Mooch look weak. Anyone?

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KT a while back was on his way to stardom after a decent game against Duncan.

Who in the heck said that? I've been here ever since KT entered the league, and I can guarantee you no one was pronouncing him a star at any point.

Bryce Drew was going to be something special

Again, who? When?

Jason Collier was going to be a great addition.

Thanks for determining his entire career for us after one season in which he was hurt the majority of the time.

But try having a subjective conversation as to whos the better player with a Mavs fan, Eisley, or Mooch. And I bet youll hear alot of the same things.

I can almost guarantee you they won't. Eisley was one of the disappointments for the Mavs last year-- didn't create, didn't shoot it well-- even logged a DNP- Coach's Decision in the playoffs. There's a reason Cuban would offer his exception to Moochie-- it's a big upgrade for them over Eisley.

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Nobody said that about any of those players. People thought that KT might be capable of starting, Bryce Drew was getting DESTROYED on the message board up until the day he was dealt, people like Matt Bullard as a solid role player, but admitted until the zone came around he didn't have any trade value, and I still think Jason Collier will be a good addition once he gets healthy and gets some playing time. I think the people who are complaining about people overrating Moochie are overrating him themselves. People look at Moochie for what he is, a valuable BACK-UP PG who can fill minutes when Francis is on the bench, and can run the offense when Francis is injured or resting. That is valuable. It's tough enough to get one quality PG, but when you can get another quality PG to come off the bench that is invaluable. It's not a matter of WHO is the best player, it is a matter of who fits your particular team BETTER! People might think Eisley is better then Moochie, but I think Moochie fits our system better then Eisley and he knows it better, so I would take that anyday! And I know you're not saying that Houston fans thought Walt Williams was going to be special! Houston fans hoped he would contribute though. Walt Williams actually was a solid contributor for Portland and Toronto and Sacramento. He hit some big shots for Portland during their Conference Finals run in 1999.

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"Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another."

- Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air


[This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

Moochie is a pretty good backup, but I won't go much further than that. Lets see a little more of him to really get a feel. Do you remember these names?

Chucky Brown
E Davis
Larry Robinson
Eldridge Rescasner

They all played good while with the rockets, then we all figured out why they were in the CBA. The JYD is the exception to this list.

I hope we don't have to add Moochie.

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T-Pooh and Quitten went up the hill,
to make a bet on a Foreward.
When it all came down,
they were nowhere to be found.
Now they should be drawn and quartered.

 

They all played good while with the rockets, then we all figured out why they were in the CBA. The JYD is the exception to this list.

Paging CBFC, paginc CBFC...

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The Mo Taylor Fan Site

 

I'm glad you brought this up crash. I absolutely what Moochie brings to the Rockets in leadership and on court play, but is he worth $4.5 million as some people(crazy people) are projecting? I think not. I'd be very willing to drop $2.5, maybe $3 million this season with incremental raises over 2-3 years. Colson has been playing pretty well this summer and showed some signs at the end of last season that he could be a good bench player(cheaper salary wise too), but could he play with the intensity that Moochie has? Who knows.

Anyway, I'd rather have Moochie because he fits in with our current team chemistry and I LOVE THAT FRO!

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Anger is a weed. Hate is a tree.

 

Ummm Cat, why oh why do you try me?

After a game against Duncan 2 years ago people (some) were thinking that KT could start for the Rox, and even be a 15, 10 guy. I believe it was before your time. I suggest you do a little post searching. I may of overexagerated the "Star" aspect, but for the most part there was alot of talk of KT being capable of 15 and 10. No No No. At least not yet, and definately not back then.

Bryce Drew arguments were before your time, you hadnt even heard of Clutch city probably when we had the heated "Give Bryce some time" arguments. Even got into it with Clutch a few times on this one. Sorry Clutch, hate to say, but told you so.
Anyhow, how can you even ask "Who, when" considering you were not even around for those posts? As if me telling you who and when, even matters since you were not around. So why exactly did you even ask?

And the Collier thing. Well 4 points and 4 boards in a summer league game where Dante Calabria can bust out for around 30, and Pookie and Ray Ray, are all busting out for 20 and 20 says enough so far. Please please give up the Collier thing. At least until he warrants something to talk about. (note to readers, this is not an admission as to knowing the future, that Collier could never be a servicable future.)

And guys...I wasnt using Eisley in particular in saying that it was a viable argument as to who is better. I was trying to make the point that really any fan would probably argue for their player. And just because the the Mavs "may" be willing to pay Mooch 4.5 doesnt mean anything. Anyone here really believe Todd McCollough is worth 33 million? Ok didnt think so. It couldnt be a ploy to drive down the cost of another player?

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"I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink

[This message has been edited by Dreamshake (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

Why do I try you? So all of your responses are automatically correct?

I may of overexagerated the "Star" aspect, but for the most part there was alot of talk of KT being capable of 15 and 10. No No No. At least not yet, and definately not back then.

People may have said KT had the potential to be a 15/10 guy, but I seriously doubt they meant it right then. I don't recall any if that were the case.

Anyhow, how can you even ask "Who, when" considering you were not even around for those posts? As if me telling you who and when, even matters since you were not around. So why exactly did you even ask?

I've been here since August of 99, if that makes anything clearer. Of course I know we had Bryce for a year before that, but from all accounts I had read about Drew and from people talking about past discussions, I never heard anyone say that they themselves or any other poster on this board thought Drew would be something special.

And the Collier thing. Well 4 points and 4 boards in a summer league game where Dante Calabria can bust out for around 30, and Pookie and Ray Ray, are all busting out for 20 and 20 says enough so far. Please please give up the Collier thing. At least until he warrants something to talk about. (note to readers, this is not an admission as to knowing the future, that Collier could never be a servicable future.)

Collier isn't near 100% in these games, and they aren't the NBA. Why don't you go look at the numbers from when he was healthy and playing in NBA action? When those two scenarios existed and he was given the backup center minutes, he consistently got 8-10 pts and 3 rebounds per game in 15 minutes. In a draft as weak as last year's, and with all the criticism he got, that is something to talk about.



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The Mo Taylor Fan Site

 

At this point, discussions about Moochie should include Sean Colson. Can someone compare their games and tell me whether the development of Sean could allow us to move Moochie, if we had to, like we did with Dickerson, Othella, etc.

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I tried that but Dreamshake and The Cat are too busy talking about KT and Collier!



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Anger is a weed. Hate is a tree.

 

geez guys, Mooch is not as good as some of you think...you gotta look through that big fro of his!

If it wasn't for Rudy's isolation plays and that famous fro last year, you wouldn't be so much in love with him like some of you are now...Don't get me wrong, I really like him as our Backup PG but I don't think he could start for a lot of NBA teams! He's not that friggn good! Just wondering how did he do as a starter last year when francis was down for a few games?

I also think he'll have a very difficult time adapting to the new zone next year because he won't be able to do his hesitation moves one-on-one like last year...Bobby Jackson is alot better than Mooch in my opinion! You guys are so biased! just admit it

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Mooch is one of the top if not the top backup PG in this league. He could start for some teams. The only problem I have with him is he plays with the ball too much sometimes, he can takeover a game sometimes though. He won the Triple OT game for us and I remember a time against the Lakers that he tookover for a stretch.

I can only think of 1 or 2 backup PG's that are better than Moochie. I also doubt we'll have to worry too much about re-signing Moochie since there hasn't been much news at all about him and other teams.

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President of the CC.net Realist Club, everyone needs a dose of reality once in a while...

 

Anyone remember a game last season against GS at home (in December) where both Mobley and Francis sat out with injuries and Moochie started in place of Francis? I live in Dallas, but I was in Houston and went to the game. Well, the Rockets lost, but Moochie basically carried the Rockets in that game. He had 19 pts and 4 assists, not incredible #'s, but anyone who watched the game would tell you he has some skills. Keep in mind I didn't have the chance to watch Moochie all year, not having NBA League Pass, but Moochie is an excellent dribbler, a great playmaker, and respectable shooter. As far as comparable backup PG's, I think Bobby Jackson is overrated. His job is to give Webber the ball, and hopefully hit an open 3. He's also good on defense, but other than that he's not so impressive.

 

My favorite thing about Moochie (besides the fro ) is the way he changes the pace of games so well. He and Francis fit completely different molds- and it really can throw the other team off when Mooch becomes the distributor. I wish he'd dribble less sometimes... but you don't see many back-up PG's (maybe none) make that sort of impact for their team.

I don't think he's one of the top 29 pg's in terms of skill. In terms of value and contributions... hell yeah.

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Moochie kinda reminds me of Elliot Perry in his Phoenix days. Blends in well, has nice flashes, but more than likely will struggle as a full-time NBA starter.