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Things that are overrated in the NBA.

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by plutoblue11, Aug 19, 2022.

  1. omgTHEpotential

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    Not leaving any time in the quarter for the opponents.
     
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  2. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    You forgot Phil Jackson.
     
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  3. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    As much as I hated them. The KD and Steph Warriors would probably beat the bulls. The shooting and spacing of that team is just unmatched. Doesn't matter how good of a defense you have. They were unstoppable.

    Stephs off ball movement woulda given the bulls fits. Dude never stops moving to get open and then all the illegal screens Draymond sets. Looking at the bulls roster, these are the only 5 guys that could have played. The rest of those dudes woulda been run off floor. With 3s being greater than 2s I just don't see how the bulls score enough to win.
    Harper
    Jordan
    Pippen
    Kukoc
    Rodman


    Draymond vs Rodman woulda been really fun to watch.

    Reggie Millers teams use to be able to keep it close with the bulls. If he actually shot more threes back then he probably had a better chance of beating them. No you take 3 shooters better than Reggie and put them on the same team.
     
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  4. RocketDream

    RocketDream Member

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    Pick swaps, especially years out. Sure, there's a potential huge upside but for that to happen, the other team has to be terrible. That's possible, but the chances that the one team you own a pick swap with is bad enough (and "lucky enough" in the draft lottery) to win a top-three or top-five pick in that exact year is tiny especially if you're looking 3-5 years out. The further out you look, the more likely that you and that other team are middle of the pack...so the expected value is pretty close to zero. The chances that they're worse than you are mirrored by the chances that you're worse than them (which means the value is 0).

    People keep talking about pick swaps as if they're the same as getting picks (I've seen numerous fans and articles talk about big picks+swaps deals as "Wow, they got 6 unprotected first rounders, 3 of them swaps!"). Swaps are nowhere near the value of picks. They're lottery picks in the very literal sense: a theoretical huge payoff but a tiny chance of actually seeing it.

    Sure, I'd rather have a pick swap option than not have it, but they are heavily, heavily overrated.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Over rated?

    Protected first round picks. They are like scratch off lottery tickets that are limited to $500 jackpots. It just doesn't do much for me.

    Off season pick up games. Players enjoy them and it keeps them in shape but outside of a few cases with young players, they really don't move the needle. Some of the very best players play very limited pick up games. The change comes from weight training and balance conditioning and working on shooting mechanics. It isn't fun but it makes a lot of difference.

    The combine. The reality is that scouting in the NBA means something different in the past. We now have teams picking players based on analytics. We have scouts that never played the game at a high level now making successful picks. It appears to be something that some people are just good at, regardless of back ground. The combine numbers really don't mean a lot.
     
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Non-elite playmaking (e.g., Caris Levert)

    2K ratings....I can't believe I actually know some.....

    Nationally televised games

    Jersey variants

    Schedule announcements
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Does anyone else find Luka's game like really boring to watch?

    I get why he's praised. I understand the level of production and impact he has. It's obviously generational level but God damn his game is so boring to watch.

    Like he's a slower footed James Harden essentially who's taller.
     
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  8. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Daryl Morey
     
  9. AXG

    AXG Member

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    LeBron
     
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  10. red5rocket

    red5rocket Member
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Luka? Maybe not in terms of level of play but just watchabllity.

    The media was intense on calling Harden.boeing and obviously I agreed somewhat. He could be exciting especially during is 14-15 season and MVP season. He was legitimately quick then and when he went down hill he moved like a shifty running back.

    The one thing I don't get is Luka is essentially a taller slower footed Harden. He's just so boring to watch.

    Does anyone else find Luka just boring to watch?
     
  12. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    1. John Stockton is fairly rated at worse, and at best is pretty overrated.

    People often say he was or is disrespected as a point guard. They say millennials and stat nerds don't value him, because he doesn't have flashy numbers or his numbers are undervalued.

    -He's exalted strictly for his numbers and individual accomplishments. He was a good HOF player, but he is not the greatest point guard ever or I'll argue a top 30 player ever. His playoff success in his peak year with another highly-touted HOF (Karl Malone), ended with them losing in the 1st Round, six times in ten years. They are point guards, such as CP3, Oscar Robertson, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and a few others who did not have any players on the caliber of Karl Malone, nor the coaching of Jerry Sloan, but experienced more playoff success. Another strike is in many of these series, Utah also had home-field advantage in most of them. They were favored to win alot of the series (by NBA analyst, media writers, and Vegas odds) and they didn't.

    The myth that Michael Jordan kept them from the championship needs to stop, because it looks like a quite a few teams kept them from winning a title. 1993-95 Houston Rockets, 1990-92/1998-2000 Portland Trailblazers, Seattle Supersonics, weaker GSW teams, and the Showtime Lakers seem to have done as much. I'd say the Rockets, Trailblazers, Supersonics, and Showtime were much instrumental in keeping Utah titleless, along with their namesake, locale, and general unlikableness.

    1B. Pure Point guard thing, I know this has been busted so many times, it's not even funny. It's nice if a team has pure point guard, the problem is ... you know what's more valuable than a pure point guard?" A guy who can get tough buckets and make plays, by both scoring and passing. I'm talking guys, like Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, Ja Morant, or Trae Young. Are they better players than Stockton? People will argue, all day and night about that, especially Jazz fans and oldheads, where both sides present convincing arguments. Though, I lean to the side against Stockton, because I feel like a player, like Curry, Young, or Rose are vastly more essential to a team's success than a Stockton type player. A Stockton type player, now, and even then, would essentially be a utility player (against modern defenses, I'll bring this up in a second).

    Even in Stockton's own time, he was not as valued as people, like to think, and he himself laughed at how people in Barcelona didn't know who he was. Critics often jumped to people were uneducated about basketball and what makes a team great in it, while Stockton, Utah, and 90s fans says people know nothing about real basketball. All that maybe true and affirmative, yet it doesn't improve Stockton's case. Utah hadn't even reach the NBA Finals, yet, while they couldn't even get out of the first round of the playoffs. It's something alot of critics hold against players, like Dominique Wilkins, Tracy McGrady, Carmelo Anthony, and Alex English. But, to be fair, most of those guys never played with anyone as good as Karl Malone (2x MVP and almost 10+ year top 5/10 scoring leader). The only one I could argue is McGrady with Yao, but Yao, like Grant Hill was often injured and inactive in playoffs. Stockton falls closer to this category, where he fairly belongs.

    He's respected as a highly level top 10 point guard, but there's no way I'd put him the likes with Magic, Oscar Robertson, West, and now Steph Curry. Those guys are complete on another planet. Even, players, like CP3, Kidd, and Frazier have more desirable playoff outcomes than Stockton. Players, like Nash, Payton, and Kidd had those fantastic playmaking elements that could make them deadly in any series with any type of teammates. You couldn't do that with Stockton or a similar player. You guys already know the stories about him and Isiah Thomas.

    Also, another highly coveted player from Stockton's time that got more press and was considered more of a "threat" ... a healthy, Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway. He started to receive pub to enter into that conversation with MJ and Magic, because he was a fantastic playmaker. There was nothing he was lacking, he could score alot of points, shoot 3s, play defense, and had all of the dazzling moves. He could also play point guard to level of Stockton, but in better in many different areas. The only thing that held him back was health. If he stayed healthy for a good 7-8 years, he would've been considered a greater point guard than Stockton. Especially, with him being a point guard who could play to level of say a Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady.

    3. The "illegal" defense change had a bigger impact on the league than the hand-checking rules. The hand-checking rules are sometimes overrated.

    People know keep pointing to the hand-checking rules for being why scorers now can do score so many points and are practically untouched on defense. Even though, the rules, themselves never really changed the league, very much from the time of its inception to five - ten years later. Another thing, many fans from the 90s don't mention is that hand-checking rules were already being changed, during that era. The actual rule NBA players complained about ... "illegal/zone defenses" being implemented. Pretty, much Tim Duncan, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, and yes, even Michael Jordan did and have complained about this rule. Under older rules, where teams had to commit one player to each player, commit fully to one ballhandler. The illegal defensive rules are more akin to the type of defenses that you would see in football, like in high school, NCAA, or the NFL. The defense can pretty much align their coverages and commitments how ever they choose. Where they can use blanket coverages, double on non-ballhandlers, front with multiple/different defenders, or go to brief double/triple teams back to zero coverage. How ever the defense decides they can utilize any type of defense they think is necessary.

    Even with the expanded hand-checking rules (2004), which happened due to what the league and *cough* fans wanted, because fans specifically said they hated low scoring games. Between 2005-2021, the NBA has still produced a good number of teams who could be considered one of if not the greatest defensive squads ever. 2008 Celtics, mid 2000s Pistons and Spurs, Mid 2010 Spurs and Heat, the modern day Warriors, grind and grit Grizzlies, and our own Rockets. There are a few more teams who could be considered defensive monsters in any era, and even have numbers and metrics that are comparable to or better than teams who had lesser or no hand-checking rules.
     
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    When the opponent blocks your shot when the clock stopped running just to mess with your rhythm.
     
  14. omgTHEpotential

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    Homecourt advantage in the regular season.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Not slower same speed.

    DD
     
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  16. red5rocket

    red5rocket Member
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    Did someone say dribbling?
     
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  17. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Over the last few seasons of ESPN player rankings Westbrook has been ranked somewhere in the 30ish range and now for this upcoming season 65th. In none of those years was he even a top 100 player. 1 or 2 of those years arguably not even top 200. And there is a solid chance he doesn’t even finish out this up coming season on an NBA team.

    He is THE most over rated player/thing in the NBA.
     
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  18. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Combine is really important for getting player heights and lengths.
     

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