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Building an Oline

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by sydmill, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    The Texans are probably 2 seasons away from being competitive. I think the 2024 season is probably the earliest we can expect them to be anything better than mediocre. Right now the only offensive lineman under contract beyond the 2023 season are Kenyon Green and Austin Deculus. Inspiring. What would you guys suggest is the way forward to building a strong O-line? I think they need at least 2 draft picks spent on linemen and then probably a free agent (unless they re-sign Tunsil and/or Howard after next season). 2 questions I have for the board are:

    1) What O-line prospects interest you in the upcoming draft?

    2) What are your thoughts about Tunsil and Howard and their 2024 free agency?

    Finally, what do you guys think the Texans should do to improve the line? This is the one item that can improve the entire offense, they need to invest heavily IMO.
     
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  2. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    Most important thing they can do. It’s not sexy, it doesn’t sell tickets, but it wins games, and winning games DOES sell tickets.

    As an aside, they can’t afford to lose Tunsil for nothing.
     
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  3. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    Layden Robinson
    O’Cyrus Torrence
    Steve Avila
    Joe Tippmann

    All interior OL players I’m looking at

    Tunsil and Howard will be here I think unless somebody offers a first for Tunsil and Howard tries to act like he should get paid top RT dollars.

    And FWIW I really like Deculus he played solid to me.
     
  4. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    https://theathletic.com/3519666/2022/08/19/2023-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings/

    Top five offensive tackles
    Player School Ht, Wt
    1. Peter Skoronski Northwestern 6-4, 310
    2. Paris Johnson Jr. Ohio State 6-6, 315
    3. Jaelyn Duncan Maryland 6-6, 288
    4. Zion Nelson Miami (Fla.) 6-5, 311
    5. Dawand Jones Ohio State 6-9, 370

    It’s too early to say the 2023 offensive tackle draft class is below average — players will improve and under-the-radar prospects will emerge. But at this point in the process, I find it very hard to get excited about the position for next year’s class.

    Top five interior offensive linemen
    Player School Ht, Wt
    1. Layden Robinson Texas A&M 6-4, 320
    2. O'Cyrus Torrence Florida 6-5, 347
    3. Cooper Beebe Kansas State 6-4, 322
    4. Javion Cohen Alabama 6-4, 305
    5. Nick Broeker Ole Miss 6-4, 317

    While the 2023 NFL Draft offensive tackle group looks underwhelming, the potential of the interior linemen is more promising. I don’t think we’ll see multiple top-20 picks like this past draft with Kenyon Green and Zion Johnson, but there are numerous prospects with Day 2 talent and the potential to get into the top-40 conversation.
     
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  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    https://theathletic.com/3468959/2022/08/02/2023-nfl-draft-interior-ol/

    Preseason top-20 senior interior offensive linemen:
    1. O’Cyrus Torrence, Florida (6-5, 347)
    Best Trait: Thunder hands
    With maybe the biggest hands (11 1/8 inches) in the 2023 draft class, Torrence has the type of punch that you can hear on tape. His hand exchange and striking technique aren’t always textbook, but he flashes violence at contact with the ability to steer or surge his man.

    While his thunderous hands are more of an asset in the run game, Torrence doesn’t let them go to waste in pass protection. Lined up at right guard, he locks down the defensive lineman (No. 0) on this play:

    Must Improve: Balance on the move
    With average athleticism and past weight issues, Torrence must work on his balance, especially as a puller and on the move. There are times when his body control can get away from him, which leaves him lunging and off-balance. Scouts are expecting his body and athleticism to show further development as part of the Gators’ program.

    2022 Season/2023 NFL Draft Outlook
    When Billy Napier was hired as the Gators’ coach in November, recruiting the talent-rich state of Florida was — predictably — his top priority. However, his most important recruit might have been Torrence, who transferred to Florida after playing under Napier for three seasons at Louisiana. After becoming a starter as a true freshman, Torrence earned All-Sun Belt honors as a sophomore and junior.

    Before Napier was hired at Louisiana in 2018, the program never had an offensive lineman drafted. But during his time with the Ragin’ Cajuns, Napier had three offensive linemen drafted in the top four rounds: Robert Hunt, Kevin Dotson and Max Mitchell. And Torrence is Napier’s latest offensive line success story. Scouts are excited to see him against SEC competition each week.

    2. Nick Broeker, Ole Miss (6-4, 317)
    Best Trait: Ability to stay centered at contact
    A sturdy athlete, Broeker works hard to stay centered in pass protection and as a run blocker, even when his balance starts to fall apart versus power. He is strong at the point of attack, due to his physical hands and body flexibility to bend his knees and reset mid-connection.

    Lined up at left tackle, Broeker pitched a shutout in pass protection on last year’s Arkansas tape, maneuvering his lower body and hands to keep himself centered versus the pass rush.

    Must Improve: Compensating his lack of length
    The main takeaway after studying Broeker’s tape: I wish he were longer. Due to his lack of inches, he often finds himself off-balance or overextended as he attempts to compensate. When he stays within himself, Broeker has the athleticism and timing to lock down defenders, but his shorter arms lower his margin for error and lead to penalties.

    2022 Season/2023 NFL Draft Outlook
    Only a three-star recruit out of high school, Broeker was chased by several top programs, including Ohio State. But the Midwest kid decided to head south and signed with Ole Miss, where he garnered Freshman All-American attention at tackle. Over his sophomore and junior seasons, Broeker started all 23 games at left tackle and drew the attention of the NFL.

    Even though all of his college action has been at left tackle, Broeker has a skill set that screams guard. Getting a head start on the position change, he moved to guard during the offseason and is expected to play on the interior as a senior for the Rebels — exactly what NFL scouts want to see. There will be a lot of new faces on the Ole Miss offense in 2022, but the steady play of Broeker should continue.

    3. John Michael Schmitz, Minnesota (6-4, 315)
    4. Steve Avila, TCU (6-4, 339)
    5. Juice Scruggs, Penn State (6-3, 314)
    6. Ricky Stromberg, Arkansas (6-4, 314)
    7. McClendon Curtis, Chattanooga (6-6, 345)
    8. Olusegun Oluwatimi, Michigan (6-3, 310)
    9. Jordan McFadden, Clemson (6-2, 305)
    10. Jarrett Kingston, Washington State (6-4, 294)*
    11. Jaxson Kirkland, Washington (6-7, 330)
    12. Jarrett Patterson, Notre Dame (6-5, 307)
    13. Jon Gaines II, UCLA (6-4, 314)
    14. Andrew Vorhees, USC (6-6, 328)
    15. Trevor Downing, Iowa State (6-3, 300)
    16. Aaron Frost, Nevada (6-4, 309)
    17. T.J. Bass, Oregon (6-4, 328)
    18. Emil Ekiyor Jr., Alabama (6-2, 317)
    19. Lorenz Metz, Cincinnati (6-9, 320)
    20. Jaylon Thomas, SMU (6-3, 317)

    (Note: An asterisk on this list denotes a player who has multiple years of eligibility remaining, via redshirt and/or the NCAA’s COVID-19-year exemption, but will be scouted as a senior by the NFL.)
     
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  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Preseason top-10 draft-eligible underclassmen interior offensive linemen:
    1. Layden Robinson, Texas A&M (6-4, 320)
    Best Trait: Core power
    For blockers at the NFL level, core power is imperative — a non-negotiable trait. And for Robinson, it might be the most impressive aspect of his game. He anchors at shallow depth with the hand strength and aggressive nature to consistently dominate the man in front of him. Robinson generates easy movement to create a surge in the run game or redirect defenders in pass protection, without drawing attention from officials.

    Of the five tapes of his I studied, the performance of Robinson (No. 64) versus a talented Missouri defensive line was the most impressive, showing off his core strength and length to neutralize defensive linemen.

    Must Improve: Lunging
    Robinson’s eagerness to maul his target will also get him in trouble at times, leaving him lunging and off-balance. With improved patience and maturation this season, his hand exchange and execution at the second level should improve.

    2022 Season/2023 NFL Draft Outlook
    In Jimbo Fisher’s first full recruiting class in College Station, Texas A&M signed 15 four- or five-star recruits, including Kenyon Green, who was the No. 15 pick in April’s NFL Draft. Robinson, a lesser-known three-star recruit, was also part of that class and has developed into a much better player than several who were ranked higher than him. Robinson became a starter last season at right guard and was one of the best run blockers in the SEC. He also didn’t give up a sack.

    For teams that prioritize long, physical blockers with natural power, Robinson will start the season at the top of their scouting list. While not on the same level as Green as a pro prospect, Robinson has the talent and development upside to be a Day 2 pick and is arguably the best interior blocker in the 2023 class.

    2. Cooper Beebe, Kansas State (6-4, 322)
    Best Trait: Violent hands
    A competitive, stubborn blocker, Beebe weaponizes his hands to snatch, punch and control defenders, both in the run game and pass protection. He unlocks power from his lower body, as well, but mostly relies on his instincts and physical hands to force defenders to come up with a plan B. Despite his lack of ideal length, Beebe is able to keep rushers from his frame due to that power.

    Stanford had zero answers against Beebe in last season’s opener. Lined up at left tackle, Beebe doesn’t hide his love for the physicality of trenchwork and uses his violent hands to anchor and stay square versus rushers.

    Must Improve: Lateral range
    Beebe is athletic for a 320-plus pounder, but his average lateral range shows on an island, where explosive rushers can access his edge. His lack of ideal length doesn’t help and leads to inconsistent weight shifts in his mirroring. A move inside to guard would help alleviate these concerns.

    2022 Season/2023 NFL Draft Outlook
    With 34 tackles for loss in high school, Beebe signed with Kansas State as a defensive tackle before moving to the offensive line during his first season on campus. He split his time at right tackle and left guard as a redshirt freshman in 2020, then kicked out to left tackle last season as a sophomore, earning first-team All-Big 12 honors.

    In Cody Whitehair (drafted No. 56 in 2016) and Dalton Risner (No. 41 in 2019), Kansas State has produced college tackles who were Day 2 draft picks and became productive interior blockers in the NFL. Beebe could be next in the pipeline. The Kansas City, Kansas, native has more than held his own at tackle for the Wildcats, but his skill set and size project him best inside, where he has the tools to be a longtime NFL starter.

    3. Javion Cohen, Alabama (6-4, 305)
    Best Trait: Wide, strong playing base
    At first glance, Cohen looks like a powerful blocker, and the tape backs up that eye test. He has a projectable frame with length, heavy hands and enough short-area maneuverability to get his wide base into position. Cohen also does a great job resetting mid-connection to sustain and finish the fight.

    Cohen had his struggles with Georgia’s Jordan Davis and Devonte Wyatt in the SEC championship game. But he also had his share of wins against the future first-round picks, including this rep where Cohen — at left guard — uses his wide base and play strength to cut off Davis from the run lane.

    Must Improve: Forward leaning
    While his aggressive nature is a positive, Cohen needs to develop his patience in his pass sets to protect against his excessive leaning or being snatched. He has enough of the movement skills required to execute his blocks, but his recovery quickness isn’t a strength for him and will leave him out of position.

    2022 Season/2023 NFL Draft Outlook
    Alabama found plenty of success running behind the left side of its offensive line last season. Left tackle Evan Neal was drafted No. 7 by the New York Giants, but Cohen returns at left guard. The Alabama native had his share of ups and downs in his first year as a starter last season and, frankly, Cohen had more negative reps on his sophomore tape than I expected. However, his baseline traits (a functional athlete with natural size, length and strength) are scheme-versatile and should continue to improve as he develops his technique and timing.

    4. Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia (6-4, 310)
    5. Luke Wypler, Ohio State (6-3, 300)
    6. Christian Mahogany, Boston College (6-3, 335)
    7. Joe Tippmann, Wisconsin (6-6, 315)
    8. Jake Renfro, Cincinnati (6-3, 310)
    9. Dylan McMahon, NC State (6-4, 305)
    10. Darrell Simmons Jr., Iowa State (6-3, 307)
     
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  7. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    https://theathletic.com/3455590/2022/07/28/2023-nfl-draft-ot-scouting/

    Preseason top 20 senior offensive tackles
    1. Jaelyn Duncan, Maryland (6-6, 288)
    Best trait: Balanced movements
    Duncan plays with outstanding lateral quickness off the ball and into his pass sets, thereby allowing him to stay balanced as he sets up shop. He understands depth and timing to hit his landmarks, and he moves with the flow and recovery athleticism to mirror rush speed. Duncan also shows balanced movements in the run game, executing pulls and pancaking defenders in space.

    With his foot quickness and core balance, Duncan has the required athleticism for the next level. On last year’s tape, he matched up well against Minnesota’s Boye Mafe, who was drafted in the second round due to his explosiveness off the edge. Duncan handled him in pass pro and did not allow a single pressure.

    Must improve: Punch timing
    While he plays with contact balance, Duncan has only average arm length (NFL-verified 33 1/4 inches) and will struggle to recover vs. defenders who get inside his chest. When he doesn’t stay on time with his punch, he invites long-armed rushers to bully him in reverse (see his battles vs. former Penn State pass rusher — and Falcons second-round pick — Arnold Ebiketie last season).

    2022 season/2023 NFL Draft outlook
    A native of Maryland, Duncan was a four-star recruit and bypassed several SEC (Florida, LSU, Tennessee) and Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State) offers to play for his home state Terrapins. He was inserted as the starting left tackle as a redshirt freshman and has started 27 games there over the last three seasons, twice earning honorable mention All-Big Ten.

    Some NFL scouts believe he will make a better interior lineman, but Duncan has the tools to stay at left tackle at the next level. If he continues to build upon what he put on his 2021 tape, Duncan will cement himself as a top-100 draft pick.

    2. Zion Nelson, Miami (Fla.) (6-5, 311)
    Best trait(s): Light feet and long arms
    Although still a work in progress in multiple areas, Nelson has several of the key measurables that NFL teams covet at left tackle. He moves well off the snap, with the slide range to protect the corner and answer speed with his own body quickness. It also helps that Nelson has the arm length (verified 35 inches) to cover up a misstep.

    Must improve: Shaky balance/anchor
    While he has done an admirable job adding weight and getting stronger, Nelson isn’t a power player. He can be put on skates by bull rushers, due to his soft shoulders and faulty anchor — especially when his hands aren’t on time. And, because of that shaky balance, his recovery options aren’t as developed as other blockers’ are.

    2022 season/2023 NFL Draft outlook
    When he arrived in Coral Gables in the spring of 2019, Nelson weighed in at just 250 pounds and was in need of a patient coaching staff — Miami was the only power-five program to offer him a scholarship. Mark Richt, however, saw something in the raw athlete and Nelson became the Hurricanes starting left tackle as a true freshman.

    Right now, Nelson is still more of a project than a finished product. But he has the length, athletic tools and coachable upside that intrigue NFL teams and could land him on day two of the draft. As Nelson enters his fourth season as a starter, scouts are hopeful that he will make meaningful progress under the tutelage of new head coach Mario Cristobal, who played offensive tackle for the Hurricanes in the early ’90s.

    3. Dawand Jones, Ohio State (6-9, 370)
    Best trait: Imposing size
    With his size, Jones makes even the most intimidating defensive linemen appear small. The right tackle’s NFL-verified numbers speak for themselves: 6-8 1/2-inches (rounded up to 6-9 above), 370 pounds, 36 1/8-inch arms, 11 5/8-inch hands and 89 1/8-inch wingspan. That’s a whole lot of man. Jones flexes his muscles in the run game, where he can bury defenders into the ground or latch on and drive them off the screen.

    Because of his struggles to bend, it won’t always look pretty with Jones — especially in pass protection. But, due to his gargantuan frame and length, the right tackle can swallow rushers and get the job done.

    Must improve: Pass-pro recovery/technique
    Predictably for a blocker his size, Jones is a high-cut waist-bender who tends to fall apart when he can’t rely on overpowering the man across from him. His technical approach in pass protection looks different from snap to snap, and he often finds himself overextended and leaning, which leaves him off balance.

    Jones also needs to develop from an instinctive standpoint to play out in front, instead of trying to react to rushers.

    2022 season/2023 NFL Draft outlook
    While Johnson was the top-ranked recruit in Ohio State’s 2020 class, Jones was the lowest-ranked recruit in the Buckeyes’ 2019 haul. Growing up, Jones — an Indianapolis native — was a basketball-first athlete with NBA aspirations; he averaged 17.0 points and 9.0 rebounds per game as a high school senior and received basketball scholarships from MAC programs like Ball State and Kent State.

    However, Jones returned to football midway through his high school career and realized offensive line was his path to professional sports. After spot duty as a freshman and sophomore at Ohio State, Jones earned the starting right tackle job as a junior and started 12 games in 2021.

    Jones flirted with leaving Columbus for the NFL after last season, but he wanted to improve upon his “fourth- or fifth-round” draft grades from scouts. Buckeyes head coach Ryan Day said Jones returned to be a “first- or second-rounder,” and the Ohio State coaches laid out a plan for the right tackle to reach that level this season.

    Ultimately, I think the more realistic projection for Jones is in the middle of those two ranges — somewhere in the third round.

    4. *Blake Freeland, BYU (6-8, 307)
    5. Ryan Hayes, Michigan (6-7, 301)
    6. Carter Warren, Pittsburgh (6-6, 321)
    7. *Matthew Bergeron, Syracuse (6-5, 324)
    8. Cody Mauch, North Dakota State (6-5, 306)
    9. Javon Foster, Missouri (6-5, 307)
    10. Walter Rouse, Stanford (6-6, 324)
    11. *Braeden Daniels, Utah (6-4, 291)
    12. Darnell Wright, Tennessee (6-5, 347)
    13. *Jordan Morgan, Arizona (6-5, 320)
    14. Connor Galvin, Baylor (6-6, 314)
    15. Luke Haggard, Indiana (6-5, 290)
    16. Mark Evans II, Arkansas Pine Bluff (6-3, 297)
    17. Spencer Rolland, North Carolina (6-6, 298)
    18. Tylan Grable, UCF (6-7, 290)
    19. Dalton Wagner, Arkansas (6-9, 331)
    20. Kadeem Telfort, UAB (6-8, 333)

    (Note: An asterisk on this list denotes a player who has multiple years of eligibility remaining, via redshirt and/or the NCAA’s COVID-19-year exemption, but will be scouted as a senior by the NFL.)
     
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  8. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Preseason top 10 draft-eligible underclassman offensive tackles
    1. Peter Skoronski, Northwestern (6-foot-4, 310)
    Best trait: Controlled feet
    An athletic blocker, Skoronski is smooth in his setup, with the mirroring skills to ride outside speed or redirect his weight to cut off inside rush lanes. Thanks to his quick processor and controlled feet, he consistently wins with quality positioning, while also flashing the hand strength and punch timing to stymie pass rushers.

    Aidan Hutchinson, the No. 2 pick in this year’s NFL Draft, lived in the Northwestern backfield on last year’s game tape. But all of his success came against the Wildcats’ right tackle — he didn’t find much success when lined up against Skoronski, who consistently won with his ability to stay controlled mid-connection.

    Must improve: Anchoring vs. power
    Skoronski owns a compact build and carries his weight well, but his lack of length leaves him at a disadvantage at times. Long-armed power rushers with a few steps of momentum can reach Skoronski’s chest and drive him backward into the pocket. Aside from continuing to get stronger in his lower body, Skoronski must continue to hone his timing to compensate for his shorter arms.

    2022 season/2023 NFL Draft outlook
    When Rashawn Slater opted out of the 2020 college football season, Northwestern lost its best player. But Skoronski stepped in as a true freshman left tackle and played at a high level, in the process announcing himself as one of the most promising blockers in college football. Slater was the No. 13 pick in 2021 and an All-Pro as a rookie last season for the Chargers — a tough act to follow for anyone. But in talking to several people close to the Northwestern program, they put Slater and Skoronski in the same conversation, on the field and as team leaders.

    There is a decent chance that Skoronski eventually shifts over to guard in my positional rankings. Do I think he can play tackle in the NFL? I do. But, just like other college tackles like Zack Martin or Joel Bitonio, Skoronski’s skill set could be maximized by moving inside to guard. While Slater was clearly a tackle prospect, in my opinion, most NFL evaluators I’ve spoken to believe Skoronski’s best pro position is inside at guard.

    Regardless, it is unanimous that he will be an early NFL starter.

    2. Paris Johnson Jr., Ohio State (6-6, 315)
    Best trait: Big-man fluidity
    It is easy to see why Johnson was one of the highest-ranked offensive line recruits in Ohio State history. He has outstanding size and length, with the gifted athleticism of a much smaller player. From his feet to his hips, Johnson has a fluid lower body to spring out of his stance and cleanly redirect, both in pass protection and the run game.

    While his technique continues to be a work in progress, Johnson’s natural fluidity and power are outstanding foundational traits. On this play against Penn State, Johnson (at right guard) cuts off the rush angle of a stunting Jesse Luketa (No. 40), then finishes him to the ground:

    Must improve: Body of work at tackle
    Johnson played left tackle in high school and was recruited for the blindside at Ohio State. But through two seasons, he has yet to line up at left tackle — he started every game at right guard last season as a sophomore. Johnson is expected to move outside to his more natural position for the 2022 season, and NFL scouts will be watching closely.

    2022 season/2023 NFL Draft outlook
    Considered the top offensive line recruit in the 2020 class, Johnson was a top-10 recruit nationally and ranked higher than Jaxon Smith-Njigba and C.J. Stroud in Ohio State’s recruiting class. A natural tackle, Johnson moved inside to guard when he arrived in Columbus and played sparingly as a freshman while he developed his body. He earned the starting right guard job last season as a sophomore as the Buckeyes looked to get the best five linemen on the field.

    At right guard, Johnson earned second-team All-Big Ten honors from the league coaches. With former Ohio State teammate Nicholas Pettit-Frere now in the NFL, though, Johnson will fill those shoes at left tackle and the rising junior will get his chance to shine. The Cincinnati native is currently a projection at left tackle, with questions about his timing and technique out in space. But with his size, strength and fluid movement skills, Johnson could translate a breakout 2022 season into an early-round draft pick.

    3. Anton Harrison, Oklahoma (6-6, 310)
    4. Broderick Jones, Georgia (6-4, 315)
    5. Robert Scott Jr., Florida State (6-5, 315)
    6. Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Penn State (6-6, 320)
    7. Warren McClendon, Georgia (6-4, 300)
    8. Patrick Paul, Houston (6-7, 315)
    9. Mason Richman, Iowa (6-6, 308)
    10. Walker Parks, Clemson (6-5, 300)
     
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  9. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

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    Reading the feedback from Twitter, majority seems to be positive. Below is one good example of what he did during the game:



    If he does plays like this, he's easily starting over Britt.
     
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  10. Rudyc281

    Rudyc281 Member

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    Build up the line for Young
     
  11. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

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    Well, I'll be damned...

     
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  12. whag00

    whag00 Contributing Member

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    The line has been pretty good so far. Besides the miscommunication in the 1st game that led to the strip sack and the Howard sack in the 2nd game the line has held up well against 2 teams with good front 7’s.

    Burkhead had too many carries in the Colts game and Mills’ skittishness in the pocket have created the illusion that the line is an issue.
     
  13. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Would love adding Layden Robinson and Carter Warren or Dawand Jones to the position group next offseason. Jones if the Texans wanted to move on from Howard, Carter if they found a deal for Tunsil. Just not sure that I would want to put so much cap space into bookend tackles nearing 30 at this stage of the rebuild.
     
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  14. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Seems like the Texans are hanging in there in terms of OL grades through 2 games. Still early, but not a sieve like I thought they would be. Run defense from the DL is unacceptable though. Need to shore that up quick.

     
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  15. whag00

    whag00 Contributing Member

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    Tunsil doing his part...

     
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  16. raining threes

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    Give me Skoroski/Stromberg/Torrence and bring back Tunsil. I also like LT Connor Galvin Baylor quite a bit.
     

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