Good Riddance !!!!

I think this thread is about being spiteful, not about debating or crisizing.

Steve's game had shortcomings and there is no doubt, that even though he was our best player, he was not on par with other team's best players. Therefore, I think its unfair to be so hateful towards a player that just happened to be not good enough (which there should be no shame in), especially when that player always gave maximum effort and heart.

Personally, I take the approach that players like that should be thanked for the contributions, and thanked for doing their best.

 

Man this is cold-blooded! But, hey what can you do! I disagree with a few things, but for the most part I agree. This team will be much more athletic and free flowing then last year's team. Last year's offense was so ridiculously stagnant it wasn't even funny. People blamed it on JVG, but we were complaining about how bad the offense was Rudy's last year here, and that was an OPEN COURT offense. So you can't run an open court offense, you can't run a half-court offense, you can't run a isolation offense and you can't run a slow-it-down, pound-it-in offense. Heck year we needed change! And the defense. Save for Cato, what did we lose? I love Cat, but McGrady can be every bit the defender Cat was, and even better because of his size, length and athletic ability. Barry can't be worse then Francis. People talk about heart, well Steve sure didn't seem to put his heart into defending. Next year's team should be much more versatile, and I have more faith in Barry and McGrady getting Yao involved then last year's team. Save for Jackson, last year's team just seemed like they got lost and were in a daze on offense. And don't label me a Cat and Steve bashet, because few on this message board have defended Steve and Cat over the last few years then me. I'm as big a Cat fan as there is, and Cat did everything he could to adjust his game to help, but the offense last year was terrible. I would have loved Cat staying, but the backcourt as a whole just seemed to bog down the offense to a ridiculous point. When you can't run a consistently clean offense you have SERIOUS problems. Maybe the team would have improved next year, but I saw nothing that made me feel like the offense would suddenly improve by leaps and bounds. Even Francis having a better offensive season wouldn't have done that.

 

In an attempt to be fair and unbiased... did we forget that a player that makes the all-star team 3 times could be considered "on par?"

And the stats actually had him in that "par" region as well, not just the popularity vote.

True, he wasn't in the "elite" or "above par, mega star" area... but he was definitely "par" enough to land McGrady.

 

I completely agree with most of what you've said especially number 9.

I cant remember how many times I'd see Francis get a pass when he was wide open only to take the pass then dribble at least 2 steps back into the defense and force a shot.


Thats one reason I dont think Steve will ever be effective if he had to play as a 2 guard. He's not the type of player that you can run off screens and picks to get his shot off........Any shot he takes he's gonna have to dribble the ball at least TWICE. He HAS to create his own shot.

Your also on point on number 10. Francis had an uncanny ability of bringing the ball up court and dribbling 16 seconds off the clock. I used to go crazy watching Yao get the ball with 4 seconds left in the shot clock and then in turn have to throw up some lame duck shot before the shot clock goes off.

 

So, are you saying that we made a one-for-one trade for McGrady? I kinda see it as a One for three trade. Sure, we got Howard and Lue.

But come on. We know where the real talent was concentrated.

 

Well, I'll let DaDakota decide if he has "hate" in is heart.

 

I would say the rest is filler. On both sides. So in your economy, yes. That may be the reality of it. T-Mac wanted out of Orlando. We had the best single "star" name and all-star talented individual available.


Are you saying that it was Cat or Cato that landed McGrady?

Without the SF3 in the deal... T-Mac would be a Pacer.

 

Thank you Sherlock. That's a great post. I don't think I could have said it any better myself.

 

Nah...it's McGrady for Francis/Cat/Cato. I'll do that trade in a heart beat.

One factor you are fogetting is that McGrady FORCED Orlando's hand. They would have never accepted the trade if McGrady hadn't demanded it. So, it was in our favor from the start.

In terms of market value. McGrady is a huge VALUE over Francis. And everyone knows it.

 

You're forgetting Howard/Lue/Gaines.

Stop trying to school people with your finite wisdom.

It was Francis for McGrady... with filler from each side to make it work.

 

Yes, I know about those guys. Howard/Lue/Gaines was contract based ($) use to relieve salary cap space. But it's not talent based like you are trying to make it seem. Come on man! Stop trying to make it seem like Francis is of the same talent level. You're deluding yourself.

So, your "on par" is not based on one-for-one talent.

 

If both Mobley and Cato were just filler and nothing more than the rockets would have kept Cato and sent out Taylor since Howard is just another Mo

 

So without Francis, he's still somewhere else.

In terms of ticket sales a 3-time all-star is more marketable than a "once was the considered heir apparent to MJ in Chicago" that had so far "struggled to make his teams a contender" and "lead" them to 21 wins. UNTIL he's traded. In other words, Orlando's tickets sales will go up, as will Houston... variety is the spice of life. But....

When did SF ever play on such a loser as a leader????

I strongly think we gambled in this, and SF will have the better early success.

Yes, SF needed to go. And our team needed to break up and retool.

But all of this giddy excitement over an untested experiment on paper, to date, is more likely setting us up for a let down season...

Meanwhile SF took two out of 5 starters with him.

GOOD NIGHT!!!

 

You are WAY of base here. Francis has nothing on T-mac when it comes to marketing potential. People in China LOVE T-mac, at the same level as Kobe and just under MJ. Two time defending scoring champ trumps 3 time allstar, its not even close. I can't believe you would even suggest this, ludicrous.

 

Man, they are gone and still get hated on. I am glad they have gone somewhere they will be appreciated and not hated on and blamed for the WORLD'S problems. Steve was blamed for everything last season from TO's to the Polution problem in our city. Get off his nuts already. I was sad to see them go but T-Mac is a great player and am a die hard Rox fan and always will be so I will support the team. If it brings us a championship then that's all that matters. I just hate how dumbasses start these type threads to bash 3 guys that busted their asses to try and make the playoffs and build a winner. It didn't work out and now we move on, no need to bash these guys. I hope they do great things in Orlando and if the Rockets don't win the championship I will hope that Steve, Cat and Cato do in Orlando so that you people who call them "Idiots" and say that "they don't understand how to play" or "run a break" or "driblle too much" or "ignore the big man" can feel really stupid and eat your words. Just let them go in peace. Peace!!!

 

What part of "In terms of ticket sales" didn't you read?

I'm talkin' turnstyle here. Attendance at games. Not other endorsements.

Get ready for tons of SF commercials (I'm restating someone else's thought on this from another thread) now that he's in the East.

And to put it in other words, my point is this... All-Stars are put in by the fans. Which means he has star power. But scoring titles will subside and go away under a JVG system.

We gambled. And I truly trust we will get results we want. I just see it (from MHO) that we set up SF with the stacked deck for sooner results.

This "GOOD RIDDANCE" attitude may end up as the "RECURRING NIGHTMARE" - I hope not. But others have stated, without much recognition, the ideas of "Remember Scottie Pippen."

Good riddance?? No. Hope this experiment works??? Yes!

 

Uhh yeah. So I guesss T-macs never been to an all-star game.

How could this POSSIBLY be a gamble in terms of ticket sale. We trade, a 3 time allstar, for a 4 time all star and 2 time defending scroring champion. Oh yeah, huge gamble.

 

I'm glad he has "star power." Although, this was a forced trade. There are still those unsuspecting fans in Orlando that think they got more than they really did.

We'll see how Dwight Howard (the real star) does. That's the determining factor in Orlando. Just like McGrady is here.

So what did we get? Lets see...How do I mesure a players talent? All-Star (fan picks; 14 year old kids; oooh, ahh, he dunks!)....OR All-NBA? Yeah, I'll take the ALL-NBA team any day.

Makes you wonder why Francis has never made to even one ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM.


2001-02
ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Tracy McGrady, Orlando
Shaquille O'Neal, LA Lakers
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers

2002-03
ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Tracy McGrady, Orlando

2003-04 ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
Ron Artest, Indiana
Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas
Yao Ming, Houston
Baron Davis, New Orleans
Michael Redd, Milwaukee

 

The gamble is we got McGrady... and exactly how many more playoff games has he won? And how many has he been in? And how many more winning seasons?


It's a gamble. But all trades are. My main gripe is that we act as if we've won it all now... and partly due to the fact that the trio is gone.

We haven't even suited up as a new team yet. But 3/5 of the Magic have, as starters. And furthermore, those 3/5 were on a playoff team last year against the WC champs... the 4 guys we got were on a 21 game OVERALL winner.

That is a gamble.

Name the titles that either have won that indicated team play (zero), and it's a wash... not a gamble either way.

This is mostly a "change of scenery" trade, and a gamble for us, more than them.

Again IMO. We got a superstud, mega-dookie-dope, all-star, hip-hop, super shootin, scorin' title holdin, INDIVIDUAL... they got a package deal of starters.

The Wizards once had an ex-scoring champ on the team, too.