1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    Where are you getting that from? the PRC has been on a modernization campaign the last 20 years. Most of its navy is newer than ours. It has 5th generation fighter air craft and is a leader in AI including in military use.

    It would be very dangerous underestimating the PRC military.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/15/china-military-00039786
     
    Ottomaton, Blatz and FranchiseBlade like this.
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,732
    Likes Received:
    36,182
    Im going to underestimate the hell out of them and there's not much you can do about it.

    PRCs last war was losing one to Vietnam in the 80's.

    Fancy weapons are nice but there's more to it.

    Not impressed.

    4/10 superpower military
     
    calurker and Ubiquitin like this.
  3. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,719
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    you are now just an over the top PRC hype man.
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    123,879
    Likes Received:
    32,770
    Those are their words, but look at their equipment - not so much.

    Their navy is a joke, they have 1 aircraft carrier we have 20....outside of their missile subs, they are nothing as far as the Navy goes.

    DD
     
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,222
    Likes Received:
    13,423
    Chinese have very good anti-aircraft capabilities built into their fleet of destroyers. In a small area like around Taiwan, they could saturate the area with radars and AA missiles.

    They also have a lot of top notch anti-ship (anti-carrier) missiles that would be very difficult to stop when launched en masse.

    If I were the US, I'd be wary of bringing my carriers into range of Chinese anti-ship supersonic cruise missiles. Unfortunately, that would mean that the carriers wouldn't get close enough to launch planes.

    Obviously they don't have a ton of experience, but that doesn't mean they'd all half-ass it like Russians in Ukraine. Chinese soldiers are inculcated with the idea that Taiwan belongs to them and they must get it back at all cost. Most Russians don't really give two f**ks about Ukraine.
     
  6. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,412
    Likes Received:
    6,204
    why spend your time obsessed with Tucker, when you could be meeting hot Russian women?
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  7. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,412
    Likes Received:
    6,204
    useful thread on Russia w/o Putin, and longterm US strategy.

     
    #8487 basso, Aug 30, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  8. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    12,824
    This. The Chinese military has been focused on beating back a US attack and invading a nearby island country.

    How well they actually perform during an actual war is a different story but I would imagine they could cause many losses to the US if we defended Taiwan.
     
  9. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,719
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Force protection and homeland defense are two opposite things. China has been homeland protection intensive ever since New China.

    If you look at the Falklands War, the exocet missile wrecked shop and fighters were important but experience and submarines were very important.
     
  10. calurker

    calurker Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1,383
    Likes Received:
    446
    The same was said for the Beiyang Fleet.
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    12,824
    China is very concerned about US carrier groups and wants to recapture Taiwan, the two are related.
     
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,298
    Likes Received:
    11,763
    The Chinese government spends more on internal control of its population than its military.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    My fandom of communism is what allowed me to beat @Ottomaton to get the news out about Gorbachev’s death out.
     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    Yes no one knows how the current PLA wil actually perform in an actual war but it is a fact they have been modernizing. They aren’t just using Soviet era knockoffs but have things like stealth fighters and air superiority fighters as the link I posted mentioned.
     
  15. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    16,398
    U figured with all the money being used on the military every year, something is being done or address instead of all this posturing.

    Seems like a waste of money to me. Plenty of things to improve in our nation
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    They have three aircraft carriers with the launching of one this past June. The PLA Navy was once considered a joke but they’ve done a lot to build a blue water navy to not just be defensive but project power . This article has a good breakdown:
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/25/asia/china-navy-aircraft-carrier-analysis-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    I have my doubts about how well most PLA soldiers will fight. PRC propaganda is that the Chinese people is willing to suffer more hardship than opponents like the US. I’m not so sure about that. With more than 40 years of growth there is a generation that has grown up with full bellies and playing video games . Im not so sure they would be willing to sacrifice that even for Taiwan.

    I still standby that it would be a mistake to underestimate their military as old and second rate. In war games it looks like while they can’t defeat the US in a matchup over Taiwan they could inflict a lot of damage.
     
  18. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,412
    Likes Received:
    6,204
    the key question is does the PRC have territorial aspirations beyond Taiwan. certainly, they'd like to have defect control over the rest of SEAsia, but they can achieve that by controlling the South China Sea.

    So in terms of war fighting capability, the question both the US and China should be asking themselves, is what is required to prevent/achieve control of Taiwan and the SCS. Aircraft carriers are mandatory for the US. They're a luxury for China, unless they're meant to attach the US carrier force outside the immediate theater.
     
  19. ArtV

    ArtV Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    1,494
    Russia has an old school war mentality. Roll tank troops in in easy to hit columns with some random bombing thrown in. And look at their tanks. They knew the T-72s had major design flaws and yet kept making them because they really don't care about the casualties of war on either side. They just think the number advantage will play out in the end.

    If Russia had modern weapons with a modern day war plan when they 1st invaded Ukraine, the war would have been over in a couple of weeks - long before we sent assistance. Putin has "fired" many generals because of their ineptness.
     
    #8499 ArtV, Aug 30, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,534
    The CNN article addresses this. Aircraft carriers are big prestige pieces. They’re not useless but as you note not the most important thing for the immediate ambitions of the PRC. The article noted that they’ve also developed stealth attack cruisers and also a large maritime merchant marine thar could be converted to military usage.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now