Yea, I would argue LBJ is literally Clyde on steroids, no pun intended. Bigger, stronger, taller, a little faster, but not quite as silky as Clyde or crafty earlier in his career. Though, LBJ is also one of the best passers in history and decent ball handler, compared to his contemporaries. Historically, he’s on the higher end. Really, both of them are slightly better mid-range games from being the greatest. Neither would really have any weaknesses in their game. I also think someone may mention that Clyde did not take the easy way out and join two other all-stars in the peak of their careers. I’d almost feel like if Portland wasn’t so terrible with picks and moves. If they chose MJ, it would’ve turned their franchise around super quickly. MJ’s career trajectory is still pretty much the same, while Clyde is probably taken more seriously as an all time guy in 10/15 range. Pippen was probably the best sidekick ever, though I don’t think he was talented as Drexler. Outside of defense, I can’t see where he trumps Glide.
Man, if we could experience the timeline where Dream and Drex play their entire careers for the Rockets... I'm thinking like a dozen titles.
But Pippen was a much, much, much, much better defender. The rest of their games were pretty comparable--Pippen generally averaged less points per game playing alongside Jordan, but was a similar scorer to Drexler per 100 possessions. Drexler just got more possessions to use with no other big time scorer on his team during his prime. Both were excellent passers and solid rebounders for their positions. Defense is where Pippen separates himself from Drexler. I can't really see any argument for Drexler being as good as, or better, than Kobe or Pippen. Drexler was a great player and a fun one to watch play, though.
I agree Pippen was a better defender (one of the best ever for his position in his prime.) However, Pippen really wasn’t much of an offensive creator. He was a good offensive player as a sidekick, but I think Clyde was a much more creative scorer and a MUCH better passer and playmaker than Pippen was. Pippen was good, but he struggled at times as a focal point of an offense. Clyde could create his own shot, and was very effective as a slasher, posting up, and on the fast break.
Or, the other timeline … they get Drexler and 23. It would’ve been plausible. Houston trading down in 83 to presumably fill out their roster. Getting another first rounder in 83, 84, or 85. Likely, getting two picks Through, a Ralph Sampson trade in the 84 Draft…2nd Pick. Portland was groupie thirsty for a big man. Still, Houston would’ve need to be high on Jordan enough to trade Sampson, which I don’t think a lot of teams would’ve done at the time. Still, it wouldn’t have been unreasonable if Olajuwon is your center. A Drexler/MJ backcourt is pretty devastating. Though, I think it’s a team that turns the NBA on it’s head pretty quickly. I won’t say they would’ve ended Showtime, but they’re are sweating a lot more out West. That’s the team to worry about. They’d win a title or two in the 80s alone. They become the team to beat in the 90s unless some lower end franchise can kill it in the draft.
This is where two players played in different eras under different rules. Clyde played in an era where hand check was an every play occurrence, but Kobe played in an era where merely laying a finger on his back would result in a foul. It’s gotten to the point that centers, who used to be the focal point of elite teams when Clyde was still playing, aren’t even assured all star spots at their respective positions. The physicality of the game has stepped aside in favor of quick hands and quick feet, for playing defense. I think it’s apparent that Kobe meant more for his team with the new rules, than what Clyde meant for his team under the rules Clyde played for (still remember hearing how Clyde dunked on a 13 foot rim! That man’s athleticism was insane). Hence Kobe’s greatness was a combination of the rules and his elite skills. For all we know if a young Clyde would have played in the league with Kobe, perhaps he’d of played better, but regardless, Clyde himself is a top 50 player of al time. Two all time greats, that’s for sure.
Pippen was considered a point forward--there's no way Drexler was a much better passer; Pippen may well have been the superior passer. It was one of his key strengths--even in Portland, when his scoring was significantly worse, he was basically their point guard. It's possible Drexler was a more creative scorer, but he wasn't a much more effective scorer--as I mentioned, the two had pretty similar scoring per 100 possessions, including when Pippen was the main guy during Jordan's baseball sabbatical. In my opinion, in their prime, they were extremely similar on offense--it's defensible to say Drexler was slightly better, but I don't think he was significantly better. I think Pippen's offense gets overshadowed by having perhaps the greatest scorer ever as a teammate, Meanwhile, Pippen was among the greatest defenders ever, while Drexler was average to below average.
The thing about Pippen is that he’s fantastic all-time great player. He’s arguably the greatest wing defender ever. But, the one thing I don’t think he was…is a bonafide #1. He’s a legendary player with great offensive skills, but I don’t think you can match him to someone, like Bird or Dr. J. Guys who could take over games or a series. His numbers didn’t increase drastically when MJ left the first time, not like say a T-Mac or Harden whose numbers exploded when they became #1s. The same with Kobe. If you take 93-94/94-95 as his highlight years as a top option, he’s not a 25+ ppg. He’s scoring numbers decreased in 94-95. Scoring was not something he was elite, nor could he create his own offense, like some of the more elite. In Drexler’s twilight years, his offensive production was equal to or better than Pippen’s best. In those years, the media was pretty favorable to Pippen. I thought he would’ve been a good choice for MVP 94, if Olajuwon somehow snuffed it. I don’t think he would be in the same class with Barkley, Malone, Robinson, and Shaq. They are all annual top 5 in the league, position, and probably championship or bust players. Glide was the player who was turning to a powerhouse. Clyde was in that category from about 88-92. His numbers and Portland’s record proved it and they were battling some historically great teams and a tough Western conference. Chicago was floundering, before MJ returned . #7 seed. The East was pretty top heavy, but it was weak on the lower half and that’s where the Bulls were a good bit of the season. Pippen couldn’t elevate them to the next level, especially losing Grant. He was that same player in Houston and Portland, but older. He couldn’t create like they needed nor was a sharpshooter. The Rockets needed guys, like Cuttino and Francis. Portland had a long list of mercenaries who would become known as the Jailblazers. But, they had guys who could really ball, not like MJ. But, guys who could get things cooking…Sheed, Stoudemire, Smith, and Sabonis. Pippen thrives more situations, where he can be a glue guy with some playmaking skills. Like Draymond, but better. He would’ve been a perfect fit for a team like the Suns (CP3/Booker), Mavs (Luka), or the Bucs. Drexler is reasonably a player that you could build a championship around. He had the scoring, passing ability, and leadership.
First of all, Chicago was "floundering" the year Jordan came back because they had lost talent. They replaced Jordan with Pete Meyers and Pippen still led them to within a bad foul call of beating the Knicks (the team that won the East that year) in the playoffs. That was the year Pippen was the top vote-getter for the All Star team and won All Star MVP. Then they lost Grant too. The Bulls would also have floundered if they had Jordan but replaced Pippen with Pete Meyers and lost Grant--we know this because the Bulls were mediocre before Pippen and Grant. Pippen was not a historically great scorer, but neither was Drexler. That's why comparisons between Drexler and Kobe are pretty silly. Drexler was a good scorer, but he simply shot at higher volume on a Portland team that needed him to. Pippen and Drexler had similar scoring efficiency, and that was efficiency was good but not great. Both profiled best as an excellent #2 scorer, but lead play-maker. They were basically both great all-around wings in terms of scoring, passing and rebounding, but neither was a dominant scorer. And then when you add in Pippen's all-time great individual and team defense, it's very hard to even put them at parity historically, let alone Drexler ahead of him. Of the players discussed here, Kobe Bryant clearly is at the top, as he was an excellent all-around wing, strong defensively and dominant as a scorer. Pippen was an excellent all-around wing, historically good defensively but not a dominant scorer. Drexler was an excellent all-around wing, mediocre defensively and not a dominant scorer. I mean, I get it--Drexler played a big part in one of our championships, while Pippen made a fuss over how he was used here, so we'll always remember Drexler much more fondly. But objectively, I really can't see Drexler as a better player in their respective primes. And for sure nowhere close to Kobe Bryant.
Pippen was a point forward because he could handle the ball, but he was not a great playmaker. He struggled mightily trying to fill Drexler’s shoes on the Rockets in ‘99. Let me put is this way. If you were to isolate one of them at the top of the key to create a shot for himself or someone else, I would take Drexler 10 times out of 10.
Kobe was a mediocre defender for the bulk of his career. He’s the Derek Jeter of all nba defensive teams.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Many analysts pointed out what a good passer Pippen was at the time. He didn't have the same roster Drexler did when he had his one (bad) season here--it was a team centered around two aging post-up players. That was Pippen's frustration--he claimed Rudy just wanted him to enter the ball into the post and then space the floor. When he went to Portland, he basically played the role of their point guard (their "official" point guard was Damon Stoudamire, who was more of a mediocre scoring guard). The Bulls never employed a true point guard (using shooters and defenders like Armstrong, Paxson and Harper) because they had sufficient play-making from Jordan and Pippen.
such a great post. kobe was more skilled and polished, clyde the better athlete and defender, if you put them together you have Jordan
