Man...We got unlucky with Jabari Smith

Who had Jabari-esque handle issues and got significantly better?
You say I ignore names but no one here mentioned anyone outside of examples that never were at his low level.
Feel free to mention a player instead of going at me?

 

I just rewatched his summer league games again and a 30 point game at Auburn.Watch his shot in summer league then watch his shot at auburn.Its not even the same.The Auburn shots have an arch.Summer league flat lazer.That tells me its all mental.Once he finds his stroke..we are having a totally different convo.6"10 cmon he can rise and get a shot anytime.Again just wait till he plays with the guys who will make it easier for him Green,Sengun,Scoot,Tate etc..

 

i completley agree with you. IMO shifty handles is almost impossible to develop at this stage of someone’s career. It’s so hard to evolve into a fluid creative handler. However, are shifty handles needed? What about a just straight functional handle that’s robotic but gets you to your spot? It’s not hard to learn a negative step on closeout, a spin on the drive overplay, a rocker in the mid post for flat defense, or a jab on the top foot in the mid post . For a guy who’s 6’10” who can get his shot off on anyone he doesn’t need much space. You get him an inch of separation he’s likely knocking it down. For his game to flourish he doesn’t need to learn shifty handles or one on one game (that’s what greens role is and frankly I don’t think Paolo would be better than green at it). He just needs to shoot, attack a closeout, one two dribble into a pull-up. Where his utility comes is in the defensive side of the ball and shooting.

I personally hate the name 3 and D. It’s so limited what id rather argue is what kind of usage and 3&d is the player? Traditionally 3 and d guys are low usage, meaning they don’t have the ball in their hands often creating offense. Jabari’s skill set will likely result in low usage. So he’ll be slotted as a 3 and d guy. Now what kind of 3 point shooter is he? Is he stationary, movement, or pull-up. Usually 3 and d guys are low usage spot up shooters in the corner like tucker. That’s not bari. He’s shown capabilities of being a dynamic stationary, movement, and pull up shooter. He’s shown throughout college that he can catch and shoot, relocate and shoot, come off pin down/flare,elevator and shoot, pick and pop, and pull up from transition. He hasn’t shown much side step 3 and/or step back. But at his size does he really need those shots yet? That skill set is much more important for our late game scorer/creator to have. Lastly defense, is he a POA defender (holiday), screen navigator (Caruso), one on one iso defender (holiday/kawhi), weak side help defender (Giannis), drop defender (Lopez), switch big (draymond), traditional rim protector (embiid), play disrupt or (thybulle/Eason)? I’d argue he’s best as a one on one iso defender that is great switching on primary big guys from the 3-5. But he’s shown more versatility already playing the drop, qb, and traditional rim protector. I’d argue that he would never be a great screen navigator due to his size but he has tremendous value being an elite defender at various positions at various schemes.

while I’m sure people wanted an “all star” at pick 3, I think they need to remember what they define as an all star. Guys like draymond, klay, Lopez, holiday, kawhi,PG are all stars and are much more impactful to winning. From reading it seems like people wanted that all-star who has a deep shifty bag who can get his 3 level scoring and create. A jumbo initiator is what they wanted. I’d push back on this thought process by stating those guys are generational. Not a lot of players fit that mold and even if you did is heliocentric play what results in optimal winning? We just saw Tatum lose and years of harden not climbing the hump. Doncic and young are in that predicament right now. It’s not a guarantee to winning. I’d much rather wait on getting a potentially dynamic 3 level playmaker (through draft and or trade) while filling out the rest of our ecosystem with flexible defenders, dynamic off ball shooters, and off ball scorers. Especially when either the only jumbo playmaker isn’t available (Paolo) and wasn’t possibly gonna be elite as a primary play creator. For as great as Paolo has been his optimal role was play creation. I think he’d be best utilized as a short roll man but his play style devolves often into a iso possession. While he makes good reads. He processes very slowly. He takes multiple dribbles in the mid post to get to the action he wants. And while having a bag he relies heavily on his spin move. I’m not sure having a lot of my usage tied to a guy who doesn’t generate a ton of space and potentially not great 3 point pull up shooter is ideal for winning in the future. Now if he was a short roll man making quick decisions, providing defensive versatility, and a credible stationary shooter that’s extremely valuable with his creation ability. But I’m not sure if he adds all that without the ball in his hands. Essentially would you want a high usage, middling ast:to, moderate 3 point shooting heliocentric player (essentially saying he plays like young, doncic, harden, Mitchell, giannis) or a low usage versatile 3 and d piece (essentially saying he plays like klay bridges, JJJ). Depends on your phas of rebuild and basketball philosophy but I don’t think we missed in what we got with bari so far.

 

I thought Kawai Leonard didnt have much handles comin in the league?

 

Great to see we have a Dick Vitale basketball expert on our board to declare the best player in college basketball a failure after 2 SL games and one where he won it defensively at the end. What nobody has mentioned on this beautiful attack board is that Smith currently is a toothpick like Chet, but he has a body type that in a few years will look like a Gia/Durant body type. Chet’s will look like Boucher’s body type. Makes all the difference in the world at the NBA level….takes time people!!!

 

Jaylen Brown .. even then he can look shaky AF with the ball at times. These playoffs he had some cringe moments handling. There arent a ton of examples because Im also in the belief those types of skills are nurtured from a very young age you either have them or you dont. I for one have been OK with Jabaris handling thus far. Im not looking for Kyrie - I just need him to be able to make some simple dribbles to beat initial defenders and collapse the defense. He seems to have that much in his bag just needs to refine it.

 

and Paul George?

 

So so so many people have mentioned this.

Y'all need to stop getting upset when folks rightly point out Bari's shortcomings.

And you DEFINITELY need to stop being like "look at Giannis' body transformation!!!". Lol. For one, Giannis is a one of a kind freak. YES, absolutely Bari can also add a crap ton of muscle, too, but almost no player in history has gone from Giannis as a late teen to Giannis now, body wise. Moreover, Giannis as a late teen.... was still a VERY capable dribbler. Go back and look at some of his rookie year highlights.

Personally, I am "ok" with a Bari offensive upside as just a great shooter, that can occasionally use that threat to dribble drive a couple dribbles in. Maybe that gets us 20 ppg seasons at a peak for 5-7 years.

I am ok with that.... because he can also be great defensively, a solid rebounder, great attitude and culture and fit the team extremely well. Basically... he's a "winner". He impacts that game.

There's so so much focus on his offense. The focus should probably be on his defense. Can he be Draymond esque defensively?? I actually think so. Cause he's an "everywhere" type defender. He's not perfect yet, but absolutely can envision this dude guarding all 5 positions during a play multiple times a game. Draymond has that plus passing - HOF player. Bari can have that plus shooting. If the rest comes even a little, great, if not, fine.

BTW: Draymond probably gets drafted.... 3rd, in a redraft of 2012.

 

Athletically, Jabari just doesn't move nearly as fluidly as these guys. It's pretty clear watching him.

 

Yeah, it makes you wonder what people are watching?

He should get better at dribbling... but focus more on getting better without dribbling much. Eg. cuts to the mid paint, deeper posts, 1 or 2 post moves that aren't pure turnarounds, etc.

 

He didn't. Kawhi is a good example of a guy who had a rudimentary handle coming in and developed a good handle. He uses his handle efficiently to get to his spots. I think Jabari absolutely can develop an efficient and effective handle to get to his spots. He doesn't need to cook dudes like Kyrie. That's a dumb expectation

 

What some of you guys want at all 5 positions


Derozan, Ingram, Leonard, Detlef, Manu all got craftier with the way they attacked their opponents with the more experience. Broken record but enjoy the progression

 

Yeah, Jabari is also about 3 inches talles than both of them and is a way better shooter coming out of college. Their games at the next level on offense won't be that similar. It is hard to get a good comparison for Jabari. Optimists will point to Durant, pessimists to Ryan Anderson and somewhere in the middle maybe Aldridge. And none of them are really spot on.

I still like the Klay Thompson comparison - he is also primarily a shooter, that won't drive to the lane a lot, but can get his shot up. I also kinda like Dirk, as someone who is mainly a jump shooter. But Dirk had more of a post game - he also did play in another time. In todays game, Dirk would shoot way more threes. But Dirk was more of a go to scorer than I imagine Jabari will be - unless he learns to drive to the lane effectively.

 

You don't need handles to be a "point forward" as much as you need court vision and IQ. Smith doesn't have to break defenders down with his dribble, he just needs to be able to dribble competently in certain situations - like fake and drive against closeouts, and dribble when he is in the high post, and on the break when he'll need to make the right pass at the right time or take it to the hole for a dunk. He's capable of doing those things.

Will he develop the passing skills of a Pippen? Probably not, but again it's not necessary for him to pass as slickly as Sengun or Banchero. He's such a threat on his jumper that just adequate ability to pass can turn him into a "point forward". What makes Draymond so good is that he has to be that good because he doesn't have a jumper even. Jabari has a great jumper and because he has gravity it will open up passing lanes when he plays along other guys who draw double teams.

 

Sure I’ll accept it. But our search for a legit num 2 scorer and playmaker continues. Maybe we will find it in the 23 draft with Scoot Henderson or Wenbayama barring KPJ somehow turning into an uber efficient scorer in the paint, better play maker, and resolving his turnover issues. I would bank on Rockets getting Jalen’s sidekick thru future drafts. Maybe 23 is the year when everything comes together for this team especially with 70 mil in cap space.

 

No one turns it around "out of nowhere" - you're creating a question to get the answer you want.

But if you want examples of players who steadily improved their handles to go from bad to solid Derozan and Porzingis come to mind.

 

What do you think handles mean man? Draymond is a point forward he has handles. Meaning he can go north south in a pretty short amount of time. He can be in the half court dribble drive and make plays. Smith can barely dribble in the half court. To expect him to be a point forward is unrealistic and unreasonable. Not his game. Never been his game. This isn’t how development works. I already mentioned he can improve his dribble drive and other things but a point forward he isn’t and will never be.

 

i wish we had julian newman running point. instant play-in

 

What? Derozan has always had a dribble drive game. That’s what he’s done his entire career since his rookie season. That was his game in college. He has always been able to dribble on the break and broke down players on the dribble in the half court. He only improved on his skills. This is what me and @Yung-T have been talking about. You don’t just have great handles because you trained during a summer or a few summers. The skill set, style of play, and identity has to be there in the first place honed and developed through the years since AAU. For players like Jabari they can improve their handles certainly but we can’t expect a drastic change or for him to play a different style. Thats not how development works. Have You played organized ball before or been around the game in real life? You would understand improvements to your game is in increments and it’s not drastic and that your identity and style of play dictates what you need to work on. For smith he needs to work on quick dribble drive and finishing not trying to dribble one on one like KPJ or play point forward.

 

Jabari is never going to act as the point guard no, but that doesn't mean you can't run the offense through him at times in the high post or the wing. His shooting ability allows him to make up for a lot with a lack of handles. He doesn't have to break a defense down when he can just shot over them. Do you see what I am trying to say?