CWebb would be the priority. We have a great pkg to offer (City, Team, Mgmt, Coach, Owner, etc.). He has the all around game that few PFs today possess. He seems to have gotten his head and game on straight in SAC. Next to Dunc, I can't think of a better FA for us. He would take a lot of pressure off Grif and allow him to develop into the threat he should be in 2-3 years. Hakeem could sign for $6-7M or play elsewhere. I know that's cold and I'm a 83' UH grad, but the team has been loyal (non-Toronto deal) and if he wants the team to have a shot and retire a Roc he needs to bend. MoT - Great O, ok D, no rebs...nice back-up plan to CWebb, but only for either 1 yr (Bird promise) or 3 yrs at $6-7M. I'm not sure he'll ever develop into a true PF. If we get CWebb, he could be part of a sign in trade for him or something else. Moochie - Must sign! His energy off the bench and PG skills are perfect for ROX. SA - How much should we pay a back-up SG that might average 10-15 mins a game? SA has some skills, but might be best pkg w/MoT to get CWebb. If not, I don't think we should pay him more than $3-4M...he'd only be insurance in case Mobes goes down or all of our SF suck. Bull - For the min, he's valuable to have around as 11th or 12th man. Cato - He needs a significant emotional event to get his a$$ in gear. Maybe it will happen...I'm afraid there aren't too many takers for his game especially if any GMs read this board. Wiz - Needs to go...although he's a great locker room influence, the young guys need some mins at SF and if we need a vet we have Bull. Walt could help some team (MIA maybe). If I could dream? I'd sign/trade MoT, SA, and future draft choice to SAC for CWebb. MoT fills PF and SA takes Cristie's spot. SAC is weaker, but not not broken. We sign a pissed off DROB for $4-5M and he has a great season to prove Spurs made a big mistake.
I agree with much of this. I just have problems with the order of talking to people. I just can't help but think that teams who suck at negotiations, suck because they are clumsy negoatiators and piss off people. For some reason, I think it is dangerous to talk to Webber until Dream talks to us. Top priority must be either to keep Mo or get Webber. Talking to everyone carelessly has unpredictable dynamics, especially with Dream. minor point of CBA fact, Mo' needs two years to attain his Full Bird rights; one yr would only give him Early Bird.
HeyCrisPee wrote: " .... For some reason, I think it is dangerous to talk to Webber until Dream talks to us ... " I tend to agree. That problem is that from a negotiation standpoint, so does Dan F and Hakeem. Eventually, all this posturing will result in someone having hurt feelings. Either MoTay who wants some decision, afterall he waited forever last year before he knew who he was playing with, S. Anderson, CD, Hakeem, the fans(regardless of the outcome), etc... In one corner we have: A player that is a veteran, who has been the hallmark of the franchise, who feels he has a lot more left in the tank, and who wants to be resigned by his home team. In the other we have: An owner that wants to avoid excessive (luxury tax) expenditures, but also wants a competitive,entertaining product. The ones in the middle: (1) The Doers (the entire management and coaching faction) who want a optomized roster. (2)The Fans who want both a living tradition to continue and yet also a fun and competitive home team to cheer about. This may get ugly. ------------------
Just kidding Shark. I don't want the Rockets to pursue Webber. I don't think he is a franchise big man capable of playing Duncan or Shaq on equal terms. I would rather have depth, than blow such a large percentage of the Rocket's resources on one guy. ------------------
1) jokes are funny when somebody "gets them" 2) if you make a snide comment about a post from someone who knows a little bit about basketball, make sure you know more then them. 3)NO ONE can play equal to shaq 4) you dont build teams to compete against two people in the league. 5)His proposition is that we give up one PF and SF/SG, for one PF. that means we are losing one SF/SG. We have enough to cover that with or without Shandon. ------------------ ...The OTHER Dark Meat
And Taylor is? I see what you are saying about having the depth. But if for nothing else, we need someone who can at least defend the Duncans, Shaqs, and Wallaces of the league. Mo, at this point, isn't ready...If we plan on getting to the top with Dream at our starting C spot, time is quickly diminishing. If we could sign, Webb, Mooch, and Dream, I would think that we are set to make a run. ------------------ The title will come to ClutchCity once again.
If I were CD, I wouldn't be working like a dog and get paid so little ... To be serious ... Get over CWebb! Putting all your cap space on one single player doesn't seem to be a wise decision for the current Rockets team. ------------------ Technically speaking, we're #1! ~Portland fans
I'd feel differently if Cwebb were making noises about how much he liked Houston. But he's not. He hasn't even visited Houston. So why not go for Mo... admittedly, it's the "safe choice," but that's not always a mistake. Mo is a league average PF. There's nothing wrong with this. The Lakers won a championship with three of their starters being below the league average. With Francis, Mobley, and Griffin, I think we'll have 3 upper-echelon players in the future. If Mo's and Raef Lafrentz (I want him on the Rockets) can be quality players... that's a contending team. Add a little depth with Mooch, Anderson, Morris, and Cato... and I get excited . ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Haven, Its not that MoT won't work, I just think he's not CWebb caliber or ever will be. I don't know why CWebb has not courted us more openly...maybe his agent has him playing us a little. King, I don't think any team should design themselves to beat another player--even Shaq! We should build the very best team we can. Are depth isn't that bad. If we sign Mooch, a PF (CWebb or MoT), a C (Hakeem or ?) we have a pretty talented bench (both vet and potential). Although we don't have a solid SG if SA leaves, we could probably get someone (other thread suggested F. Lopez) C Cato/Colly PF KT/Grif SF Langhi/Grif/Walt/TMo SG Mobes/TMo (maybe) PG Francis Crisp, You're right timing is so key and I really believe that is whay we haven't heard much in open source reporting. But, if we can secure CWebb and then make a proposal to Dream we have more leverage and an opportunity to take the "high ground" should he say no to the offer of ($6-7M). If we don't have a CWebb in our hip pocket than Dream (rightly or wrongly) has more leverage in negotiations. That's why I went with CWebb, then Dream, then MoT. ------------------
Shark, I generally like your plan and is probably similar to what we considered. But I also have no doubt that what most of us here (BBS, mainstream news outlets) is less than nothing. In other words, everything we here from media sources is manipulated by the teams or players/agents for their purposes. Statements like "now that we have Griffin, we are no longer interested in Webber" are really designed to improve our 2nd, 3rd and 4th options (Mo, Dream, Moochi, Shand), etc. Of course Rudy or someone else in our brass has talked to Webber and let him know a 6/90 contract (max strait FA signing) is available here any time he wants it. But it appears Webber will not consider that (he can make more money with Sac or via S & T), we probably have known this for a long time (well before our draft, though the draft was a semi-believable time to publically say what we did). And we don't have the excess parts and salary that we are willing to consider in a S & T. The optimist in me says Webber and the Rockets actually have agreed to the deal and they are waiting for the right time for PR reasons (so we can say Dream turned us down, for Webber to look like not such a bad guy, etc.), but my gut really tells me Webber just isn't interested in the max FA contract we can do. The latter is really the only game with him because Stevie, Cat and Eddie are not going anywhere. Thus we have (probably) moved on to other things to strengthen our team like signing Mo, Moochi and getting Dream on a reasonable short term contract. If we can sign our own free agents to compliment this year's draft we have had a great offseason. This doesn't mean I am not greedy and would love to see Webber here and trade Cato/Walt for a center upgrade to make this offseason a coup of all coups. But we just have to wait and see what happens and not believe anything anyone says who actually has stakes in this until it is official.
They are even funnier if you have a sense of humor, like Shark, and not like Silk. Easy there big fella. I don't think Webber is worth the max. I would rather take that money and keep Mooch, MoT, go after Marc Jackson, and still have cap room for next year's crop. In my opinion, Hakeem is not reliable physically, and Webber is not enough to put us over the top. This rebuilding process will take years, and the Rockets should not blow all their resources before they are ready to contend for the championship. ------------------
Wouldnt you agree that there is at least 2 players at every position that are worth the max. That logic should hold true. every player that is the best at their position i would think IS worth the max. And any team would be willing to have a player that can contend against everyone but one player in the league. At this point in time... dont look at potential. look at value over time of the contract signed. Would you not say Webber is worth the max to whoever can sign him? ------------------ ...The OTHER Dark Meat
Scar - You're probably right, but I'll keep the faith until otherwise disproven. The Rocs have somewhat of a history of surprises and I can only hope they have a couple of more. Our fall back positions aren't bad and it will be great watching Grif and TMo blend with Stevie/Mobes in an screaming flashdance up-down the hardwood. Most of what we here that hasn't happened is propaganda. Filtering through the BS keeps the threads coming. Thanks for your take! ------------------
Look at Webber's age. It will take another 2 or 3 seasons, if not longer, before Griffin, Mobley and Francis reach their full potential. 3 seasons from now Webber will be starting his 12th season! He will even be close to being as good as he was last season. Also, Webber is another guy that will demand the ball a lot. We don't need another go-to guy. In 3 years Mo Taylor will be in his prime and will be a better rebounder than he is now (not as good as Webber for sure, but at least 8 rpg). Taylor compliments the Rockets system well and is a better fit chemistry-wise than Webber. Depends on the team. Webber is definitely worth the max for a team with guys who are already stars and ready to contend now. New York, Indiana, San Antonio, Orlando all come to mind. Houston should NOT sign a guy like Webber for the max. I don't think the Rockets need to invest max on anyone that they don't already have. We already have 3 future all-stars! They should invest cap space in young complimentary players to grow with our core players. Guys like Mohammed this year or LaFrentz next year are the free agents they should pursue. ------------------ http://www.cld9.com/chris/nbau.html
It took Kobe like 4, KG like 5. IF you think Griffen will reach his "full" potential in 3... (do i even have to write anything else?) when it comes to talent they peak at about 5 seasons, and peak at player value at about 12. that is when they have that veteran's edge. (includes ref call's and court savvy.) Webber still has productive years in front of him. he is just now priming. Granted id much rather find a player that will prime at the same time as the other players. But that means a team that needs radical rebuilding eventually, and is difficult task. IF webber were to want to sign here, (which he doesnt) i guarantee the rockets would sign him in a heartbeat. ------------------ ...The OTHER Dark Meat
Yea thats why I said 2 or 3, IF NOT LONGER...and that just proves my point even furter if it ends up being his 5th season. Then it would be: Francis: 7th season/Moochie: 10th season Mobley: 8th season/Langhi: 6th season Griffin: 5th season/Morris: 5th season/Anderson? 10th season Webber: 14th season or Taylor: 9th season/Thomas: 7th season Mohammed/LaFrentz: 8th season/Cato: 9th season Everyone on the roster would be in or near their prime, while Webber will be old and way past his prime, taking up 1/3 of our cap space. ------------------ http://www.cld9.com/chris/nbau.html [This message has been edited by SteveFrancis3 (edited July 13, 2001).]
