1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The nba figured out how to stop the super teams and it is working

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by what, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    In many cases, the Supermax is causing teams to have to greatly overpay to retain players. That's how a guy like John Wall ends up making $47m a year. We can thank the supermax for allowing Gobert to make $38m/season. Westbrook can thank the Supermax for his $47m untradeable contract.

    We've already seen PG13, Kawahi and AD turn down the opportunity to sign a supermax in order to go elsewhere.
     
    clos4life likes this.
  2. what

    what Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    14,588
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    I’d say yes and yes. If Brooklyn trades Durant, it is because they want to. They don’t HAVE to. Also, by the time harden left, it was time for him to go. But the circumstances for harden’s trade, isn’t really the same as what I was referring to: which is specifically surrounding the 7 to 8 year free agency.
    Hardens deal was when he was just about past his prime and probably was. Same with Durant, same thing happened with Hakeem moving to Toronto. Aging stars have always been an asset to move on from.

    My point is with a player that hasn’t just reached the 7 or 8 year free agency and when teams trade them for draft capital is relatively new, as in the past teams would hold on and try to convince that player to stay. The fact is that that rarely succeeded as bigger markets would swoop in and give that player more than the small market could offer. Nowadays with the supermax, that doesn’t and probably won’t happen nearly as much — as the money is much more.

    As far as draft picks are concerned, you’d rarely see teams trading player in their prime who are superstars for draft capital, but it is happening now because picks are becoming more valuable. So teams are willing to trade players for picks.
    In the past, joker, lillard, Beal, kat, lavine and many other would have jumped ship.
    It is telling that the biggest free agency signing was a second round draft pick that got severely overpaid.
     
  3. what

    what Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    14,588
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    This may be true: but the point is that it is the small market teams choice that this is happening — on THEIR terms. They don’t have to pay them, and sometimes they don’t. But that just means the supermax is working as expected.
     
  4. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    4,187
    Teams have never HAD to trade a player. Once they sign a deal the player technically can't break the contract. The player just makes it so unpleasant to keep them around or threatens to not resign if nearing the end of the deal and forces managements. hand. It's no different now then it ever was. Teams could (and can still) hold players to contracts if they wanted to.

    San Antonio didn't choose for Kawhai to leave. Indy didn't want to trade PG13 and New Orleans did everything that they could to keep AD. It's not Brooklyn's choice to trade KD, they really don't have much of a choice.

    It's no different than it ever was. Some stars stay with the same team through their prime ( Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Malone, Stockton) and others move on to greener pastures ( Shaq, Barkley). Supermax hasn't changed that.

    Supermax was a creation of the players associations, not the owners. It's purpose was to funnel more money to the players and raise salaries. Mega-stars like Kawhai, PG13, AD and KD have still changed teams. Giannis stayed with his team. It has however allowed "B level " guys like John Wall and Zach Lavine to make way more money than they should.

    NBA salary cap/tax rules have changed and had more effect on player movement than supermax has. It's much more expensive for a team now days if they want to go way over the cap.

    Giannis resigned for the super max. What prevents him from now forcing his way out of Milwaukee in the next couple of years? It's not like signing a supermax and a player forcing their way off of a team are mutually exclusive Harden, Westbrook and now Durant are all supermax guys who decided to leave the team that they signed wtih.
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,959
    Likes Received:
    36,527
    The NBA stopped superteams - it just took Golden State with the highest payroll in league history.
     
    hakeem94 and RocketsDraftTV like this.
  6. Dacamel

    Dacamel Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    The NBA as not stopped super teams. Looks like that trend might actually slow for a bit. Adam Silver is doing a good job overall. There are things that need to be corrected. The forcing your way out has to stop. It’s bad for the teams, especially demanding what teams the Player will only play for. I think you should only be eligible to be traded with a season and half left on your contract. This way the owners can’t sign u long term, then Blake Griffin you few months later. Flopping is pathetic. Grown muscular athletes, falling to the floor, multiple times a game? I don’t understand how refs call that s**t. Go watch a street ball game. Dad bod is not falling down every few mins. Instant reply is a joke too. Just have the eye in the sky make the call, instead of having the ref walk over and watch the 55 angles of the play. I could go on but by now, no one is reading this any way.
     
    Slyonebluejay and hakeem94 like this.
  7. what

    what Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    14,588
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    like I said, I won’t argue cap with you, but I did want to point out that, in ADs case, I believe BECAUSE of the supermax, the pelicans got a haul that they never would have without it.
    In fact, I don’t think that AD would have left for LA, without a sign and trade.

    players may demand trades (Hakeem demanded one) which is fine, I never claimed that the supermax solved players demanding trades.
    What I said was that, before the supermax, there was very little a team could do to keep a superstar, as they could just wait for unrestricted free agency and then leave.
    Now with the supermax, players HAVE to negotiate with their small market team as the supermax gives the small market team something that the player cannot get on the open market and this has been a game changer, as it gives a lot of power back to the small market team.

    So, in fact: you might even say that New Orleans won that trade — New Orleans indeed seems to be happy about it as they trolled the lakers.

    Because of the supermax, you could even say that New York got trolled in a sense. Don’t you think, if New York had a choice they would have preferred Devin Booker to Jalen Brunson. They ended up severely overpaying for a marginal player because that was the only realistic player that could be enticed to leave.

    But anyway you keep confusing my point and that is that the unrestricted superstar as a thing to leave a team is a thing of the past.

    And regardless of (if after the fact) the player requests a trade, means nothing because the players salary now MUST go through the drafting team, which means that regardless the drafting team WILL BE well compensated, which again feeds back into the notion of draft picks being more valuable. As the teams begin to understand that the only way forward to build a team is through the draft. New York is an outlier, and has a stupid front office, we all know this.

    Also, people are wondering why the wizards paid Beal — one reason may be to control his rights for a future rebuilding trade. They knew giving beal the supermax would make him a more attractive trade piece.
     
  8. what

    what Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    14,588
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    this also makes my point — Kyrie demanding a trade or else, lol.
    Brooklyn was like, go ahead, be my guest. And you know what, that big old payday got into his head and he had second thoughts.

    I don’t mind demanding trades, so much because look what happened to Ben Simmons, if you want to lose half your salary for not showing up to play, be my guest and for kd, if he decides to do something stupid and not play hard, it hurts his legacy.
    This is all due to the supermax. Players want it. And after that team gives it to them, that team owns you so you can moan all you want.
    I think Brooklyn WANTS to trade kd, which is why this story is gaining traction.
     
    Slyonebluejay and Dacamel like this.
  9. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    3,033
    Wiggins was not drafted. He was traded for a max player placeholder (DLo) which that slot was created by KD. The team with the highest payroll won the championship this year.
     
    Dacamel likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now