Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, eliminating constitutional right to abortion

Abortion has been declining for years. This is from 2017 but I've seen other evidence that says that the trend has been continuing.

My understanding is that this is due to greater access to contraception and sex education.

Also note that while that number does seem high out of a country of 333 million where millions are having sex every day that would still likely mean any time a woman has sex it resulting in an abortion is very rare.

 

His abortion clinic was non compliant and he was censured numerous times. The board should have taken away his license. He also was a huge prescriber of various pain pills to those that abused them.

Using your logic, should we just ban doctors from prescribing pain medicine? Perhaps we should not have doctors as there are cases of malpractice.

Gosnell was a serial killer and he is in jail for the rest of his life. He committed various crimes.

We have had how many tens of millions of abortions? In anything there will be people that are exploitative or that abuse their power. We respond by punishing them.

 

I was responding to someone who wasn't you about the difference between doing something that has a potential negative outcome and doing something for the purpose of achieving that outcome. My post (#710) was in response to AkeemTheDream86. You quoted that post and added the twist, what if someone offered to cover your gambling losses. That was you entering into a discussion I was having with someone else. I responded that people would feel sorry for someone that got stiffed, but would be skeptical because it is weird for someone to say gamble your own money, but trust me, if you lose I will cover the losses. Then I explained that the normal way gamblers have their losses covered by others is through staking, and how that process works. Hopefully that clears things up for you. I never said anything about women being generally irresponsible, or anything about your ex specifically.

No. I already addressed this. The 12-year-olds in foster care were not in foster care for the past 12 years, they generally were raised by their parents (or more commonly single parent) until something happened to put them into the foster care system. They could have their parents die, the parent or parents could go to jail or prison, they could be found by the court to be unfit parents. Then you suddenly have a 12-year-old (or whatever age, non-infant) foster kid. Those kids are not in high demand.

Incorrect. Abortions are limiting the number of Teslas, not Leafs. The Leafs come from a different set of issues. The problem is, you didn't understand that giving the kid up for adoption instead of aborting doesn't lead to a teenager in foster care (a Leaf) it leads to an infant adopted into a happy home (a Tesla). We should reduce the number of Nissan Leafs, but you do that by cracking down on crime and unfit parenting as quickly and harshly as possible.

The poster literally asked for one example. Is this not the best possible example of a doctor that was willing to lie to give women abortions even when there was clearly no medical emergency?

 

Well that's pretty silly. Young women who are in financially and romantically unstable situation getting screwed over by their partners is an extremely common occurrence. So common that its a common plot piece in many of the most prominent HS movies every created. To act as if the women bear no responsibility for finding themselves in the situation they did is asinine. If you have sex, there's a chance you become pregnant and having sex in a situation where you aren't able to handle that without using an abortion, is irresponsible.

It's tragic and I do have empathy for the women and I think men bear blame as well but to act like a woman is blameless is ridiculous. She made poor choices.

 

Many women are having abortions because they couldn't deal with the consequences of sex outside of getting an abortion, which shows how irresponsible the exercise of the sexual faculties was at the time they had sex.

It is tragic but that tragedy can be 100% averted by not having sex.

I don't think preaching abstinence will end abortions. It's still good advice. People make poor decisions all the time regarding the use of the sexual faculties. That's true of people regarding their diet, their personal finances and any number of other things. I still think we should tell people to eat well, save and invest etc etc. All of that is super sad but people make choices and suffer the consequences.

 

You want to portray me as being "mean" or "uncharitable" to women but you couldn't be more wrong. I, actually, want the absolute best for women, and what is actually best for women is to respect them and not put them in a sh** situation, that is achieved through abstinence until the right time.

The right time isn't young, financially and romantically unstable with some skeeze. That's just irresponsible and leads to tremendous amounts of suffering that can be seen throughout society.

 

Aren’t young people also just having less sex than in prior decades?

 

So should rape victims be allowed to terminate their pregnancy in 1st trimester, or is forcing them to give birth somehow best for them in your view?

 

The kids in foster care typically weren't there as babies and when they are they get adopted real quick. Foster care kids were once with some sort of relatives or guardians that couldn't take care of them so they become wards (?) of the state.

A 12 year-old in foster care wouldn't have been there from birth. Also, foster care kids aren't all up for adoption. Lots of them have parents or relatives still attempting to regain custody of them.

I am sure someone else could explain that better, but my wife and I were in the process of becoming foster parents before I knocked her up so I am somewhat familiar. We're still looking to adopt, but put that off until our kids are a bit older.

 

Thats 1% percent of abortions and has nothing to do with the responsibility discussion. It’s just a weak attempt steer the conversation somewhere else.

 

“I, actually, want the absolute best for women, and what is actually best for women is to respect them and not put them in a sh** situation,”

What’s best for rape victims is to give them the choice to safely terminate their pregnancy without being stigmatized. If you don’t agree, I question your sincerity in writing the above.

 

You're taking my statement, "I, actually, want the absolute best for women" out of context. You could take that statement and ask any number of follow up questions regarding what's best for women. Which you have done, trying to take the conversation far afield and play gotcha.

The actual context was regarding the responsible use of one's sexual faculties. What's best for women is the exercise of those sex faculties in a mature, financially and romantically stable relationship, so, that, if an unplanned pregnancy does occur, that's ok and they don't have to decide between 1. Grappling with an abortion which is extremely traumatic or 2. Taking a pregnancy to term young, financially unstable and in the care of some dude who is also likely young, financially unstable and unready to be a father.

You don't want to talk about that though because you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Dude, you're standing on four legs and your horse has some long, tall ones.

Most everyone knows that people should be responsible with their "sexual faculties". We are way past that at this point.

You seem like a swell human being and are able, at this point in your life, to control all of your urges and potential vices, avoiding all bad decisions, accidents and mistakes. That is quite commendable.

For thousands of years human beings, like all animals, have been procreating on Earth because of an innate, biological drive to have sex. For much of our existence on Earth, this was happening not long after puberty. We, like all animals, would not have survived as a species without this incredible desire and drive to have sex.

Obviously, it would be great if everyone were financially stable and in a "mature, romantically stable relationship when a pregnancy occurs." Sure, most everone gets that. We are way past that at this point. Poor people are allowed to have sex. Married people have accidents. Rapes do happen. Young people make bad decisions, pregnancies do result in medical emergencies and need to be terminated. It happens.

So, it is admirable that you preach abstinence to a degree. Most parents do that in some way, shape or form with their children. The next step is to teach responsible use of their "sexual faculties", safe and protected sex, etc., etc. on down the line until you have to teach your daughters not to walk alone at night, to watch their uncovered drink if in a bar/restaurant and so on.

So move on. Everyone gets it. We are past that. And if you're riding too high on your horse, be careful because it hurts when you fall off. And everyone always does, eventually.

 

has it been that long? time flies.

 

What you meant is that abstinence would be best for young women who are incapable or unwilling to go through with a pregnancy and raise a child. But you can make that argument without also making the highly misleading statement "I, actually, want the absolute best for women". Clearly that's not the case for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy for any number of reasons. Taking away their ability to safely abort their pregnancy without being stigmatized is NOT in their best interests. What you want is an absolute ban on abortion, and you are trying really hard to argue that this stance somehow aligns with the best interests of women, when it obviously doesn't. Point to a a country that has abortion laws you agree with, and let's see how well women are doing there.

 

Hate to see how large the incel group will get in the future if abstinence until financial stability is the answer for women.

 

Spoiler

 

10-year-old girl denied abortion in Ohio

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3544588-10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/

excerpt:

A 10-year-old girl was denied an abortion in Ohio after the Supreme Court ruled last week that it was overturning Roe v. Wade, demonstrating the tangible impacts that the high court’s decision is having on patients seeking access to the medical procedure.

A child abuse doctor in Ohio contacted Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an obstetrician-gynecologist in Indiana, after receiving a 10-year-old patient who was six weeks and three days pregnant, the Indianapolis Star reported.

That patient is now heading west to Indiana given that an abortion ban in Ohio, which prohibits the medical procedure when fetal cardiac activity begins, around six weeks, had become effective quickly after the high court issued its decision.
​

more at the link

 

And people being swindled by people they had an emotional attachment with happens quite frequently. There have been several movies about that too. It is a crime to con someone but we don't prosecute the victims who are conned under your reasoning we should since they were also repsonsible.

Since you're against abortion does that mean you would support prosecution of women that get abortions?

 

And I agree with you that women who do things like have casual sex without protection, or without knowing much about their partners is irresponsible. That's not what happened to my ex or many other women who did. They were in what they believed to be committed relationships where their partner had said they would look after them but abandoned them.

And 100% of food poisoning can be averted by not eating. That's nor really a practical solution.

Sure we should but that doesn't change that people still eat donuts and cheeseburgers, do drugs and any sort of other behaviors. "Just say no!" is a failed policy on a lot of things. That's why we teach people about better nutrition and physical fitness is part of school curriculums. It's why we have drug treatment. It's why we teach sex-ed and should be making access to contraception far more widely available.

I will say it again abortion should be rare and ideally not happen at all. Until we get to addressing the conditions why it happens and not go around blaming women all we're doing with these new laws is making getting an abortion more dangerous. Not ending it.

I don't know you personally and have no reason to believe you are a bad person. Too often debates on here get personal. I have no personal animosity towards you. We're having a debate on a very controversial topic so it's expected it should get heated. I believe you that in your heart you believe you are doing what's best for women. I don't think that really reflects the experience of most women who have sought abortions. I think you're making an argument based on moralizing from on high and proposing solutions that have been shown not to work.

The truth as you and I are both men we will never know what it's like to be pregnant. We will never know what it's like to go through an abortion or what goes into making that decision. All I can tell you is what I've heard from women who I knew personally. I suggest that everyone especially every man do the same thing before casting judgement.