Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, eliminating constitutional right to abortion

The protests are getting worse but they can still be classified as mostly peaceful. Graffiti is ok, but keep the flamethrowers at the crib.

 

This is per request, in virtually all of those countries you can still have later abortions, you just have to get approval from a doctor or medical board.

I'd be for something similar in the US. The right to have an abortion no questions asked by request until a certain date after the first trimester (when over 90% of abortions are done), and after that, an independent national medical program can assess any requests on a case-by-case basis on the remaining 7-8% of requests.

 

Opinion: Roe was very bad for America. The court gives us a chance to reset

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/opinions/court-decision-roe-was-very-bad-for-america-snead/index.html

excerpt:

By my lights, Roe and its progeny have been very bad for America. By virtue of those precedents, the Supreme Court imposed on the nation an extreme, one-size fits all regulatory regime for abortion of its own invention, without any justification in the text, history or tradition of the Constitution.

Indeed, the reasoning in both Roe and Casey is famously weak and even the most sophisticated proponents of abortion rights have put forward their own justification rooted in the 13th amendment’s ban on involuntary servitude or the 14th amendment’s guarantee of equal protection, rather than mining that latter amendment’s due process clause for an implicit right to privacy, which was the basis for the Roe decision, or an unwritten liberty interest, which was the grounding of the Casey decision. In my view, the Court’s jurisprudence has, from the beginning, been a conclusion in search of a justification – a tortured narrative of constantly shifting arguments, standards and rules.

Not only did Roe and its progeny corrupt the law, but it also badly damaged our politics. It channeled all of the political energy of the abortion debate into proxy battles for control of the Supreme Court that played out in a toxic fashion in presidential and senatorial campaigns, reaching a shameful apex in judicial confirmation hearings, which have become a no-holds-barred blood sport where politicians don’t merely argue, they seek to destroy the nominee as a person. This has transformed into something entirely darker, with justices and their families facing harassment and other threats of violence, including murder.

***
But apart from all this, Roe and its progeny have wounded the nation in a way that is even more relevant now; Roe eliminated the need for us to talk to one another in the political sphere in a way that has real and concrete meaning for the laws and policies that bind us. The Supreme Court took the issue of abortion out of the political, legislative and executive spheres (except for minor ancillary side constraints such as parental involvement laws, informed consent provisions, waiting periods and limits on especially controversial methods of abortion).

It declared one side – the abortion rights side – the victor of the most hotly contested public question in the modern era, and told the other side to go home. And it did so under a notoriously weak interpretive analysis that even liberals like American legal scholar Laurence Tribe once recognized as unpersuasive.

So for nearly 50 years, those on opposite sides of the issue haven’t really had to learn how to talk to one another in a serious way about how to find a path forward for the law and policy of abortion – we simply did what the Supreme Court told us insofar as we could tell what that was. There was no need for those who disagreed to discuss the issue since we weren’t allowed to govern ourselves. But that all has to change now. We need to re-learn how to talk about abortion as a precondition of self-governance.

How do we start? Much could be said, but I will limit myself to the perhaps obvious but important observation that we will not get anywhere unless we are honest and charitable with one another. We need to be candid with one another (and with ourselves) about what we believe and why it matters, what we intend to do and how we mean to do it.

But more importantly, we must be charitable. In particular, we owe our fellow citizens with whom we disagree the respect of listening and trying our level best to understand their arguments, the goods they hold most dear, the harms they most fear and to try to internalize their perspective. When we characterize their arguments, we must do so accurately and in their strongest form such that our interlocutors would recognize their own tone and substance in our rendition.
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more at the link

 

Remember this old bill from March 2022? There are always idiotic lawmakers but Roe provided protection. Now that's gone, we got to deal with these idiotic lawmakers. The job of a lawmaker is to understand what laws they are proposing. This lawmaker not only admits he doesn't understand, but it's also clear that he doesn't care to understand and he even wants to go more extreme.

Brian Seitz:


Missouri Bill Would Make It Illegal To Treat Ectopic Pregnancies (today.com)

A Missouri bill could make it illegal to treat ectopic pregnancies
An ectopic pregnancy is 100% fatal if untreated, and never, ever results in a baby. Yet it's a common target in anti-abortion legislation.

On Wednesday, Missouri legislators held a public hearing on a bill that would make it a felony to "perform or induce an abortion" to treat an ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancies never result in a baby and can be fatal if left untreated.

While the Missouri bill is expected to fail, the legislation is an example of how ectopic pregnancy can get mistakenly swept up in efforts to target abortion access.

Republican state Representative Brian Seitz, who introduced House Bill 2810, says the bill is intended to restrict the "trafficking of abortion-inducing devices or drugs." In the hearing, he stated the illegal use of medications that cause an abortion “could actually kill a woman,” despite studies showing abortion medications are safer than penicillin and Tylenol, and 14 times safer than childbirth.

When asked if he knew medication abortion is safer than penicillin and Tylenol, Seitz told TODAY Parents he didn't: "No, I don't, because again, I'm not a doctor."

"What I'm just attempting to do is to stop the importation or the trafficking of these types of drugs to be used in an illegal manner," he added.

Seitz said his intent with HB 2810 is “not to stop health care providers, doctors and so forth from using these medications to help deal with an ectopic pregnancy.” Instead, he said, “We were talking about totally using these drugs in an illegal manner, including using them for ectopic pregnancies.”

Ingle said Seitz seemed to be "really unclear" as to why he was including the ectopic pregnancy language, instead trying to "focus on sex trafficking victims, and them having potential ectopic pregnancies and being treated outside of a medical facility."

"How do you treat an ectopic pregnancy illegally?" Ingle asked.

Seitz said that he does not know of any instance in which a person has attempted to treat an ectopic pregnancy illegally.

“The only way to know that it’s an ectopic pregnancy would be to go to a hospital, the health care facility, to see your doctor and find out if that’s the case," he added. "And they would prescribe the appropriate methods to take care of that difficulty.”


What HB 2810 may say about future legislative efforts
While seemingly confused about what an ectopic pregnancy is and how it's treated during the hearing, Seitz did tell TODAY he is "fully aware that ectopic pregnancies are not viable."

In the hearing, Seitz said that he did not know the punishment range of either a Class A or Class B felony, but did say that both penalties under this proposed law "are probably not even strict enough."

"So you would even go so far as offering the death penalty as a solution," Rogers asked Seitz. "We'll have to look at that in other legislation," Seitz responded.

"Considering the death penalty for folks providing abortion services was one of the most extreme things I've heard in my time in the house," Ingle said.

 

Talk about murder! That's horrible.

 

I don't really want to delve too deep into this, or if we do I will likely respond tomorrow just because I have a busy day.

As I said in my original post it is hard to make a direct comparison because in most of Europe the government does not put road blocks in front or access to abortion like some states do, for example Texas with the absurd requirement that a women get an view an ultrasound 24 hours before an abortion takes places. Further, in Europe they do not have the government going out of it's way to restrict access to abortion like they do in many states, for example Mississippi that has a single clinic in the entire state. In Europe hospitals are far more likely to do the procedure.

Also in most of Europe you CAN get a late term abortion, you are required to get approval from a doctor, which is not hard to get.

In another post you said that a lot of women use abortion as their choice of contraception? That is false, in actual practice "safe sex" has a high enough failure rate (some as high as 4-6%) that with a population of nearly 200,000,000 women there will be lots of incidents of women that have been cautious that still get an abortion. The idea that you actually believe that it is common form of birth control is disturbing. Do you know what goes into an abortion? It isn't a pleasant procedure, and it isn't convenient either. It simply isn't accurate.

 

she's a Republican. clearly

 

100% true. My mom is very pro-choice, I never understood why given how conservative she is on other issues. But just now when R v W was overturned she got really emotional. When my parents first moved to the us, they were extremely poor. It was my sister then me, and they barely scraped by. My mom got accidentally pregnant and they didn't have insurance or money. And they couldn't afford to take care of another person. So they made a tough choice and my mom got an abortion. It was emotionally taxing. She had to get support from the Kennedy center to help get the procedure. It was painful and she bled for days. But she doesn't regret it she says because she did what she had to do for the family and had no other choice at the time.

The people here who are saying what they say, have 0 understanding or empathy for the women who go through this.

 

It is hard to get 60 Senators to agree on many things.

If she wants to be mad at the democrats, that is understandable but she should remember who took away her right to bodily autonomy and it wasn't old man Biden.

FWIW I do think we are going to see a strong increase in women pushing for more autonomy, more rights and a continued change in the patriarchy.

 

Nope. She's probably someone that'll now vote for more an AOC type than a moderate Dem in the primaries though. If every action has an equal and opposite reaction what do you think the reaction will be to the Republican party forcing it's hard right fundamentalist beliefs on half the population???... Voting for Trump in 2024 who will put more Christian Nationalist SCOTUS judges on the Supreme Court???

You guys are living in fantasy land. You especially are living in fantasy land if you think you have a chance to Dunk on Dems because young Dem voters being pissed off at Moderate Democrats means that Republicans are somehow going to fare better because of it.

 

Well that looks like a guy I wouldn’t leave my son alone with. Bravo for him being an ignorant buffoon.

 

Wait, isn't this a good platform for Biden 2024? Promise he will do ThE ThiNG, you know so that so that so that women have the right to have Ice cream without worry THAT a baby she will not have or want like back in the day when kids would run up and down the street------ Point is I'm the guy who can change it. Who will change it. If you don't vote for me you ain't pro abortion...

 

The current democratic party is out of touch with a lot of their voters. We are going to see the party go to the left or be more progressive.

The republican party already has started their process of change because of Trump.

A lot of people are not going to be happy with the changes... it is going to be more young, female and minority centric.

 

FWIW, it IS being forced a LOT now...and the scuttlebutt is that this is why Buzz Lightyear is not doing so well at the box office. People getting tired of being preached at, and are choosing not to spend their entertainment dollars or time for it to happen. Kind of a cancel cancel culture movement going on, which is fitting and overdue. If as you say, simply more minority characters, I also don't notice much. Even main characters (like Capt Marvel)...as that didn't change the story, really didn't bother me, or seemingly others. Buzz Lightyear, from what I heard, well...went beyond that. Interestingly, that part was removed from various international distributions, too...meaning never was really central to the story.

 

Agree...and I'm not sure the Democrats will like how that turns out for them. Just as when the Republican Party swung too far to the right, when either party caters to its extremes, it loses overall support. But happy to have them ignore that historical truism. ;-)

This was an EXCELLENT little dialogue on why that's not really a good thing, in general, and its NOT from a conservative!

 

And this illustrates perfectly why Republicans have gained the footholds they have.

I agree that they should not fundraise on this particular thing but how can she then say they should not campaign on it

I mean really WTF?

So these types want the Democratic party to be as ruthless as the Republicans but don't want Democrats to fundraise or campaign on the topic that will be in everybody's top 3 heading into the election?

And then campaign in the next sentence about messaging from Democrats?

Again WTF?

And then I come to find out Democrats could not have codified Roe with a simple majority but we can already see these people b****ing and moaning when they don't have a clue.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mocrats-do-need-more-majority-codify-roe-vs-/

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...-to-codify-roe-but-lack-the-votes-to-succeed/

I am really baffled, is it just human nature to be upset all the time?

This is not saying the Dem party does not have flaws but if we can't even coalesce around Roe then we get everything we deserve.

This is not a shot at you Reeko.

 

It should be a fundraising point for Democrats. It is one of the best things to have as fundraiser.

Always go with the most important and significant happenings in order to fundraise so they can make the case for defeating those responsible for stripping away the right and protecting further rights from being stripped.