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Is it time to restore the Supreme Court to legitimacy?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 26, 2022.

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Should the court be expanded given the far right agenda?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    64.9%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    35.1%
  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Sadly I read it.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    In fairness when you were in college, you could pay your tuition loading and unloading trucks. Today you couldn't even pay for your books doing that.
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    not exactly. dropped out of college twice because I couldn't afford it, worked as a park ranger where I cleaned toilets, ran the trash truck, plowed snow, cut firewood and ran a mobile sawmill, maintained trucks and club cars, and learned some building trade skills of plumbing and rough carpentry.

    When I went back to school I had achieved my financial independence and the university I ended up gave me a couple of years' worth of outright grants. But I managed to put myself through.
     
  4. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    If I learned anything the last few years, it is to not question the legitimacy of anything government related publicly.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    When my dad lost his job, I had to drop out my sophomore year. But I got a job on wall street and was able to go back and pay the rest of the way on my own. I feel I got very lucky.
     
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  6. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    Actually women are 38% against abortion. Men are 41% according to surveys
     
  7. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Niko Bowie
    @nikobowie
    · 12h
    This past week has seen a repudiation of the court-based theory of change that has defined legal liberalism for several decades in the US: a theory that elite lawyers will always be able to use elite reasoning to persuade elite judges not to let things get out of hand.
    Show this thread
     
  8. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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  9. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    I disagree completely that the court should be expanded....but if it were, then you are 100% correct

    The whole "I don't like what the other side did so I want to change the way we run our government, so it agrees with me" attitude of most of America is sickening

    Both sides
     
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  10. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    On your first point here, you can forget about any major political decisions ever not being a "s*it show" anymore...social media will make sure of that. I don't think politics is all that different from a majority of our nations history right now, it's just a majority of the population never really followed or knew what was going on. Now we have people (BOTH SIDES) who don't understand the constitution in pretty much any way, spouting off about decisions like this (not saying you are one of those, just saying in general)

    As for the issue of abortion itself, as someone who was adopted, I sure am glad the Roe decision didn't come down in 66
     
  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I realize that you don't post too often. Just wanted to say that it's a loss for the forum that you don't. Thanks for an intelligent post.
     
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  12. HTM

    HTM Member

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    So the statistics around abortion for men and women arent very different… like I just said.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Republicans packed the court with ideologues. You can't say one is ok, and then criticize the other party trying to restore balance.

    Dems have to be strong here and stop being a wilted flower. What the Republicans have done requires more than protest.
     
  14. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Court packing is a term of art meaning to add seats to the court so that you can shift the ideological balance. Republicans did pack the court with ideologues, but it was in 1869 under President Grant. Both parties have been smart enough not to go down that road again for over 150 years.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    I did not want to see Roe V Wade overturned. However I always yield to states rights, whether I agree or disagree. I want the option to avoid backwards states like Mississippi or government heavy handed states like California.

    I find it ironic that you claim one side 'packs' the courts with ideologues but yet you insist your team dictates how the entire country should live per your ideologue.
     
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Opinion: Abortion deserves a sober debate. Instead, it gets a war of unreason.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/27/roe-deserves-sober-debate-not-war-of-unreason/

    excerpt:

    This is a difficult moment for Roe v. Wade to have fallen.

    A complicated debate about life and death — involving science, law and moral philosophy — has been thrown into the middle of an escalating culture war. And intemperance is the order of the day.

    ***
    Yet some ill-timed events are also inevitable. Roe has always been vulnerable because it was so poorly argued. Its medical line-drawing was fundamentally arbitrary. Its legal reasoning was uncompelling, even to many liberals. “The failure to confront the issue in principled terms,” said Archibald Cox, President John F. Kennedy’s solicitor general, “leaves the opinion to read like a set of hospital rules and regulations. … Neither historian, nor layman, nor lawyer will be persuaded that all the prescriptions of Justice [Harry] Blackmun are part of the Constitution.”

    The breathtaking overreach of Roe has been cited as the cause for an enduring political backlash. And one legal mind who famously did the citing was Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a strong supporter of abortion rights. Speaking at the University of Chicago Law School in 2013, Ginsburg faulted Roe as being too sweeping, giving the pro-life movement “a target to aim at relentlessly.” Abortion rights, she argued, would have been more deeply rooted had they been secured more gradually, in a process including state legislatures — which in the early ’70s were moving toward liberalized abortion laws. “My criticism of Roe,” she said, “is that it seemed to have stopped the momentum that was on the side of change.”

    Roe has been one of the first and largest sources of ideological polarization. Tens of millions of Americans believe abortion is a fundamental right. Tens of millions believe developing human life has moral worth and should have legal protection.

    In 1973, the Supreme Court came down heavily on one side, essentially telling pro-life citizens they could never politically win because the Constitution wouldn’t allow it. They naturally felt disenfranchised. If in 1973 the court had held that fetal life deserved all the protections of the 14th Amendment, I imagine pro-choice citizens would have felt disenfranchised as well.

    This is the problem of seeking monumental social change by convincing a Supreme Court majority rather than working toward a social and political consensus. In the United States, lasting legitimacy is the product of democratic consent. Rule by court diktat is written in sand, even if the tide rises only once in a half-century.

    It’s disappointing to watch elements of the left react to the democratization of the abortion issue by attacking democracy itself. The argument goes: The electoral college gives Republicans — who have lost the popular vote in five of the last six elections — an advantage in winning the presidency and appointing Supreme Court justices. And the gerrymandering of state legislative districts has resulted in a GOP stranglehold on many state legislatures. Thus, the institutions where the left loses are rigged and illegitimate. That sounds much like the attitude it has been criticizing and fighting on the Trump-right.

    A universal principle of politics is that whining is not an effective substitute for organization. Neither is vituperation. I accept that pro-choice advocates believe they are seeking the welfare of women. But when they accuse pro-life people of intentional cruelty, or seeking to turn back the clock on civil rights, or advocating “a crime against humanity” (as Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has charged), they poison our politics with venomous libel. Almost uniformly in my experience, pro-life advocates believe they are serving the most vulnerable members of the human family by expanding the circle of legal inclusion and protection.
    more at the link
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It's one thing to declare an election a fraud without any evidence vs saying a court ruling is biased by stating facts.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    The only side that is trying to dictate how people live are the Republicans by telling women what they can and can not do. Are you calling me a Republican?

    If you care so much for state rights, then why not make issue how the Supreme Court is striking down state's ability to regulate guns, but then defend them taking away people freedom of religion by forcing Christian beliefs over their bodies?
     
  20. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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