If you don't think Kerry has a plan for dealing with Islamic fundamentalist nutjobs, then you haven't opened your ears (or your mind) to what he has been saying. He has specifically said that he will dramatically expand our intelligence gathering apparatus in order to ID these nutjobs BEFORE they attack and then take them out with covert, discrete, targeted military action. Sounds like a much better direction than Bush's "plan."
1. It was posted in reply to me. 2. When you say that defended Saddam stuff I know you have no arguments and are resorting instead to dishonest and offensive innuendo. 3. If you would challenge my convictions instead of calling me a terrorist or tyrant lover, that'd be one thing. You've done plenty of the latter and virtually none of the former. That's why I think you're a jerk.
Birch Barlow: "Mayor Quimby, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that YOUR house was ransacked by thugs, YOUR family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob..." Mayor Quimby: "What is your question?" Birch Barlow: "My question is about the budget, sir."
dude, that is EXACTLY what's goin on RIGHT NOW. i've never understood why people strictly base their opinions on party lines. makes absolutely no sense at all.
I may have missed the point completely, but I don't think basso was crediting either Bush or Kerry with being responsible for the situations in their corresponding poll options. The point was to see if anyone hates Bush so much that they would pick to have Kerry in the White House in spite of it requiring the horrible conditions of his poll option.
basso: I'm funny that way. I take it personal when people suggest I sympathize with terrorists. You and Jorge and the rest should stop doing it so we could have some decent discussions. You got basso's point fine. The point you missed entirely is that those horrible conditions are exactly why some of us hate Bush.
What, do you think Bush is "cutting back" our intel? We're training a ton of new officers, equipping Predator drones with Hellfire missiles (having scored a few kills). We go by track record and frankly, the left's track record is one of surrender and appeasement. God, you people are ridiculous.
i actually don't buy that. i think it's a convenient excuse and you've hated bush since the fall of 2000. i could be wrong, but i saw much the same hysteria back then. in late october 2000 i attended an event sponsored by Glamour magazine, "Women of the year" or something. there were a few civilians being honored (my sister was one0 but most of the rest were celebrities, sheyl crow, etc. Karina Gore spoke, and i was actually quite impressed. i remember thinking the wrong gore was running. then sharon stone got up and went off on a 15 minute anti-bush diatribe, complete w/ tears, bemoaning the sad state of the country if this reactionary nazi were elected (i'm paraphrasing, i'm sure she did not use the "N" word.). my point is, it's precisely the type of language amd imagery we hear now, and heard in the aftermath of the election. in the wake of 9/11 the left had to hold its collective tongue, but w/ afghanistan, and then the run up to iRaq, the hounds were loosed and the war itself has given the dogs of appeasement their head. you may hate him for reasons that iClude the iRaq war, but at least be honest- you hated him long before that.
No. I didn't. But as I've said before here, I come by my ideology honestly. I fully expect you and the other conservatives here do too. I disliked Bush before things started going so badly because I disagreed with his extreme proposals during the campaign and his even more extreme governing after. I grew to hate him when things started going so dangerously wrong. The suggestion that that hate is arbitrary -- that it has nothing to do with an honest disagreement over policy and that it is so petty as to engender hope for bad things happening to America and Americans is what shuts down any chance at respectful, honest debate in this forum. The premise of this poll is specifically crafted to suggest that American liberals want bad things for America. How anyone on the left is supposed to react to that with anything but resentment is beyond me.
Well, look, you're the one who said: The point you missed entirely is that those horrible conditions are exactly why some of us hate Bush. That implies that you-- or some-- liberals were big Bush fans or at least tolerant of him prior to the current conditions. I think it's clear you have a pathological hatred of the man, and it wouldn't matter if it were raining blowjobs, you'd still hate him. So I asked-- no, I sarcastically implied-- that you must have liked him, because to say you hate him now is to say you didn't hate him before, especially when combined with a conditional attachment. You didn't like that, though, so you stated he'd made some "extreme" proposals during his campaign for the Presidency (which would get the rolleyes if I were so inclined) and then said you hated him based on the current situation. Think about that. You said you hate the President of the United States. Pathetic. Then, you manage to imply that I am the problem with this forum. That people who dislike hatred, hypocrisy, and logically inconsistent arguments-- all of which you are demonstrating here-- are the reason people treat politics like it's a neighborhood street fight where their block's favorite fighters are the right side to root for...? You have got some ****ing nerve. The poll's premise is silly, I think we can all agree on that-- my post in the Hangout being tangible evidence of that. But you've strayed well beyond the poll itself.
Switch the names in the poll question, and you'll get the same results. Americans want what's best for this great country -- and we support candidates and policies we think will help make us even better. Anybody who votes strictly along party lines is simply too lazy to think for himself, myself included. Would I support George Bush if it meant world peace and prosperity? You bet your ass I would. But all the evidence leads me to a very different conclusion. That's why I'm voting for John Kerry. If you feel that Bush will lead us back, you should definitely vote for him. That's why this country is so amazing -- one person, one vote.
Brian, I disliked Bush quite a lot as governor for various policy reasons. I disliked him quite a lot during the campaign for his proposals. Beyond that I thought (and think) he's too intellectually incurious to be a good president, but that part doesn't make me dislike him -- it just makes me oppose him. And my deep dislike turned to hate when his anti-terrorism policies -- especially with regard to Iraq -- reached a point that I sincerely believed made this country a more dangerous place to live while he and his began suggesting that any dissent was treasonous. Other than that, I'm not gonna war with a moderator. Especially one with a temper that rivals my own. I'm out.
Wow, how prescient. I have a lot more respect for Sharon now. I can say for myself that I did not like Bush before he was elected, but I certainly didn't hate him. I didn't think there would be much difference between Bush and Gore and that's why I voted for Nader. I actually thought Bush would try to govern from the middle and in no way did I anticipate the utter incompetence and bungling of this administration. Boy was I wrong.
Sam already mentioned one specific nation helping out more in Iraq, but Nato as a whole has taken over the International Security force there, and will be adding more new troops in order to help see to the upcoming election.
Well, on that, we can agree. I could run intellectual circles around Bush-- then again, that's not necessarily why we elect Presidents. And I'm not trying to push you around just because I can edit your posts to make you claim to be a little teapot short and stout. YouR post really did irk me, though. I have partisan passions and I hate them, but I really do believe I take an honest approach to politics for the most part. I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh unless I'm laid up with mono and my gf forgets to change the radio (who does?), and I probably disagree with as many of Bush's policies as you do. His tax cuts are improperly aimed, his Justice Department is trying to rewrite the Constitution, and I think opposition to stem cell research is a crime against humanity. What I don't like is the perceived reluctance from some to admit they just ****ing hate the other side and always will. GWB is that kind of catalyst, as was Clinton. For anyone who hates one or the other to pretend it's just a matter of circumstance, well, I don't like it and I don't buy it. I think it's dishonest. Sorry, but I don't believe most liberals would like Bush any more if things were peachy all over the world.
