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republican gerrymandering

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    One side effect I worry about with gerrymandering is the way it forces the conversation to be about representation of identitarian groups. You see that in some countries with a history of ethnic fighting, where X number of seats are reserved for this group and Y for that group, and if the President is from here then the VP has to be from there. Then you pretty much have to align your politics with your ethnic identity. I don't really want to see that in the US.

    @Commodore's right that improving the rules won't necessarily improve outcomes, and in any case it doesn't break this cycle of saying this or that racial minority is disenfranchised by the map. I think the construct of a House of local representation was a nice idea but obviously fatally flawed in retrospect. I think a more parliamentary system where parties put forward a state-wide slate of Representatives and get proportional representation could work better. But, of course it's basically impossible to make such a fundamental change to the Constitution. So, instead we pretty much have to resort to band-aid solutions like algorithmic map drawing and independent commissions.
     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I am good with those two bandaids. Its clear allowing local partisans to draw up the lines in order to protect or grow their party's hold on power is weakening democracy.
     
  3. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    They both look funny. You know that's a silly question. 2020 isn't 2010. Even if so, visual guesswork is not any proper way to judge if maps were drawn to the disadvantage of a race. This tweet resembles the surface-level simplistic faulty thinking of American and Twitter culture today. The fed district court of northern Alabama (a conservative court), which is one proper way to judge, unanimously already stated that the current 2021 map very likely violated the VRA.
     
  4. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Good news - it's more balanced. Bad news - there are extreme political gerrymandering on both sides. Really bad news - there ain't no representation for many communities and that will keep growing.

     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    'Throwing kerosene on every fire': DeSantis targets Black-held congressional seats. And his own party.
    The GOP governor wants a court fight aimed at provisions in the federal Voting Rights Act and Florida’s constitution, sources said, as he runs for re-election and eyes 2024.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...lack-held-congressional-seats-party-rcna19771
     
  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    This description of DeSantis from that article sounds just like Trump.

    “DeSantis has shown that there’s now a political premium on throwing kerosene on every fire,” Gelber said. “He just fights everyone, even his own Republican Legislature, if they try to follow the law.”
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    MojoMan likes this.
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    h/t to @MojoMan

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/27/nyregion/redistricting-congress-gerrymander-ny.html

    New York’s Top Court Voids Democrat-Drawn House Map
    The New York Court of Appeals said Democrats violated the State Constitution and ignored the will of the voters. The judges ordered a court-appointed expert to draw replacements.

    By Nicholas Fandos
    April 27, 2022, 2:40 p.m. ET

    New York’s highest court ruled on Wednesday that Democratic leaders had violated the State Constitution when drawing new congressional and State Senate districts, ordering a court-appointed special master to draw replacement lines for this year’s critical midterm elections instead.

    In a sweeping 32-page ruling, a divided New York State Court of Appeals chided Democrats for defying the will of voters who in 2014 adopted constitutional reforms, including a new outside commission, to curb political influence in the redistricting process. The judges additionally found that the congressional districts drawn by Democrats had violated an explicit state ban on partisan gerrymandering.

    “Through the 2014 amendments, the people of this state adopted substantial redistricting reforms aimed at ensuring that the starting point for redistricting legislation would be district lines proffered by a bipartisan commission following significant public participation, thereby ensuring each political party and all interested persons a voice in the composition of those lines,” Chief Judge Janet DiFiore wrote for the four-judge majority.

    The verdict, which is not subject to appeal, delivered a stinging defeat to Democrats in Albany and in Washington and cast this year’s election cycle into deep uncertainty. To accommodate the drawing of new districts, the Court of Appeals indicated that party primaries for the congressional and State Senate districts would have to be postponed from June until August.

    The judges were silent on whether to move contests for governor and State Assembly seats, as well, but they noted in the majority opinion that New York had held bifurcated primaries before. Given the judges’ reasoning, the Assembly maps appear only to have survived because Republicans who brought the suit did not explicitly challenge them.

    National Democrats had been counting on the maps that the State Legislature approved in February to pick up as many as three new seats this fall and offset redistricting gains by Republicans in states they control. With Democratic gains likely to be erased in New York, Republicans are on track to make modest gains nationally, easing their path to retaking control of the House of Representatives this fall.

    The ruling makes New York the most prominent state so far this cycle to have a map stricken over partisan gerrymandering. Courts in Ohio, North Carolina and Alabama have all found instances of partisan or racial gerrymandering by Republicans so far, and the courts are widely expected to scrutinize new lines in Florida that overwhelmingly favor Republicans. And in Maryland, lawmakers were ordered to redraw an “extreme gerrymander” that favored Democrats.

    The court’s findings could also undermine Democrats’ attempts to position themselves as the party of voting rights and could cast their attacks on Republican gerrymandering efforts as hypocritical.

    The stricken congressional map, which was adopted by Democratic supermajorities in February, reconfigured three Republican districts into new Democrat-friendly seats on Long Island, Staten Island and in central New York, and eliminated a fourth Republican district upstate altogether. In total, the map would have given Democrats an advantage in 22 of New York’s 26 congressional districts, compared with 19 seats currently held by Democrats and eight by Republicans.



     
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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yo...otakis-11651098438?mod=hp_opin_pos_2#cxrecs_s

    New York’s Gerrymander Gets Whacked
    A Democratic plan to pick up four House seats is voided by the courts.
    By The Editorial Board
    April 27, 2022 7:02 pm ET

    im-533066.jpeg
    Rep. Jerry Nadler

    When Albany passed a House reapportionment plan in February, we called it a jerrymander, since it forced Rep. Jerry Nadler’s New York City district to perform contortions worthy of Cirque du Soleil. Democrats drew that map intending to send four congressional Republicans into early political retirement.

    But the Legislature was too obviously eager to take partisan advantage, and on Wednesday a majority on the state’s highest court blocked the gerrymander. Voters in 2014 amended New York’s constitution to hand redistricting to an independent commission, as well as to prohibit the drawing of lines for raw partisan ends. Albany thumbed its nose at voters the first chance it got.

    The redistricting commission hit a stalemate and offered two competing plans. Then the Democratic Legislature, as Chief Judge Janet DiFiore explains, “responded by creating and enacting maps in a nontransparent manner controlled exclusively by the dominant political party.” The judicial majority says new lines will have to be drawn by a nonpartisan special master, overseen by a lower court. Primary elections on June 28 might have to be postponed.

    What a mess Democrats in Albany made for themselves. President Trump won 38% of New Yorkers in 2020. Republicans now hold eight of its 27 House seats, or 30%. The Legislature’s map would have given the GOP an advantage in only four districts, or 15%. Maybe if Albany had been less greedy, it could have gotten away with something.

    GOP Rep. Nicole Malliotakis is probably reveling in her improved shot at re-election. Under the Legislature’s plan, her Staten Island district would have swept up to include liberal Park Slope, Brooklyn. Executing that maneuver is what turned Mr. Nadler’s district into a drunken snake. Who knows how a special master will redo the map, but it will probably be better for Ms. Malliotakis.

    The broader point is that this rebuke by New York’s top court, with every judge appointed by a Democratic Governor, puts the lie to the party’s holier-than-thou pose on redistricting. For years gerrymandering generally favored Democrats nationwide, and back then it was treated as a brute fact of political life. As soon as it looked as if Republicans might gain an edge, Democrats began calling it a danger to the republic. New York proves that was a charade all along.

    Appeared in the April 28, 2022, print edition.








     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  11. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    It's a weird juxtaposition. Stronger state courts that fight against against gerrymandering have fairer voting representation rules in their own states, at the expense of a weaker national presence due to partisan courts allowing for gerrymandering in other states. We really should all strive to have the California system that took years to make with bitpartisan support from Schwarzenegger and other politicians. Cali did it best and really went to the people to ask them what communities meant to them and got groups of surfers, Latinos, horse breeders, everyone participating.
     
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  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  13. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    It's likely mostly ignored in the public's eyes because it plays such a relatively minor part of american politics, if it determined governments, there would have been legitimate moves to kill it decades ago, but since the senate and presidency are determined based on state boundaries, it's all a bit meh.

    So it's really only a house issue, but since the house majority doesn't make you the government like a westminster system, it really becomes a discussion for an interested minority.
     
  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    New NY congressional maps look rather dismal for Democrats

    https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/0...maps-look-rather-dismal-for-democrats-n469749

    excerpt:

    You can view the draft of the new map here. There are still a couple of districts that look as if they’ve been tortured a bit if you ask me, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Democrats’ original map.

    There is clearly going to be a lot of scrambling among both incumbents and challengers as we previously predicted. But that applies to Democrats as well as Republicans. Some incumbents will wind up going head to head with members of their own party as their homes land in what was formerly another member’s district. One problematic area for the state’s GOP delegation is the location of the district that Republican Dutchess County Executive Marc Molinaro had been hoping to represent. He was hoping to capture the seat being vacated by Democrat Antonio Delgado, who is leaving to become the state’s Lt. Governor. But Molinaro would now be in a significantly more liberal district.

    One Democrat with a problem is Congressman Paul Tonko. His home would now land in the new version of the northern district currently held by Congresswoman Elise Stefanik. That district will still lean heavily Republican and Stefanik is very popular up there.

    The biggest change, however, is on Long Island. The gerrymandered map would have twisted the region into three Democratic-leaning districts with one heavily Republican one. The new map establishes one clearly Democratic district, one for the Republicans, and two that are projected to be very competitive. In the state and local elections last November, Long Island swung sharply to the right in response to crime rates associated with New York’s bail reform laws. If the GOP can somehow take the two new competitive seats on the Island and do well in the north country, rather than losing three seats, they could potentially gain one.

    The Democrats have now come out on the losing end of the gerrymandering wars in at least three states, including Florida and Maryland in addition to New York. And if the red wave does arrive and washes over a number of other states, the Dems’ current slender margin giving them the House majority and the Speakership is looking very, very shakey.

    more at the link
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    That's good for the NY courts to address partisan gerrymandering. It would be good if the FL and TX courts followed suit.
     
  17. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    That will never happen in Texas and Florida as long as you have the radical right wing traitor leaders in office.
     
  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yo...ocrats-11652818602?mod=hp_opin_pos_4#cxrecs_s

    New York’s Gerrymander Boomerang
    Democrats usually cheer when courts draw maps, but not this time.
    By The Editorial Board
    May 17, 2022 6:37 pm ET

    For years Democrats have demanded that the courts take a more active role in redistricting. In New York they got their wish but don’t like the result. Last month the state’s highest court threw out Albany’s gerrymander of U.S. House seats, and on Monday a judicial special master’s replacement proposal was unveiled.

    From a partisan standpoint, the new plan could potentially tilt more Democratic than today’s map, depending on the year. Republicans hold 30% of New York’s House seats, within the area code of President Trump’s share of the 2020 vote (38%). The special master’s plan has 19% of seats firmly Republican, and another 19% competitive. In a good year for the GOP, it might prove roughly fair. In a bad year, it might be nearly a Republican wipeout.

    Democrats are upset anyway, and one reason is that they were counting on permanently conquering more seats via Albany’s gerrymander, which was aggressive about packing Republican voters into a few red districts. That plan gave the GOP an edge in only 15% of seats. But the special master, a Carnegie Mellon fellow named Jonathan Cervas, isn’t a partisan hack. His map looks better on neutral criteria, with more-compact districts and fewer county splits.

    The other reason Democrats are flipping out is that Mr. Cervas paid little attention to the usual political nicety of incumbent protection. Under his plan, several sitting House members would end up in the same territory.

    House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler and Oversight Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney will have to duke it out for a revised Manhattan seat. “I very much look forward to running in and representing the people of the newly created 12th District,” Mr. Nadler said. But Ms. Maloney doesn’t sound scared: “I’ve never lost an election; I don’t intend to start now.”

    Hakeem Jeffries, No. 5 in House leadership, would now be in the 9th district, elbowing Rep. Yvette Clarke. He is charging racism. This map, Mr. Jeffries said, is the product of an “out-of-town special master” and a judicial overseer, “both of whom happen to be white men.” He called it “part of a vicious national pattern” targeting the Congressional Black Caucus, saying it “would make Jim Crow blush.” Try to keep your eyes from rolling straight out of your skull.

    Sean Patrick Maloney, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said he’d run in the new 17th district, north of New York City. Rep. Mondaire Jones, who today represents much of that terrain, complained that Mr. Maloney “did not even give me a heads up before he went on Twitter to make that announcement.” Yet Mr. Jones would live in the 16th district, held by Rep. Jamaal Bowman. All are Democrats.

    The GOP can be forgiven some schadenfreude after watching Democrats get hit by a gerrymandering boomerang. If Albany had been less obvious in trying to squeeze redistricting for every drop of partisan gain, maybe the judiciary would have been reluctant to take over the cartography. Instead they went for broke.

    The larger point is that redistricting is inherently political. Democrats cheer when a court in a state like North Carolina inserts itself into the drawing of congressional lines. They appear to think judges will produce a map that’s more “fair.” Now they’re frantically trying to protest the New York plan before Friday, which a state judge has set as a deadline for its approval.

    Do you think Democrats will learn anything from this episode? We don’t either.

     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  20. Os Trigonum

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