I love the contracts pointed out when some suggest 7.5 or 10 would be market value. Vin Baker? Bryant Reeves? Ilgauskas? You do realize that all of these contracts have made the respective teams subjects of ridicule, right? Baker had a few good years... at about 20 and 10. That earns the max in this league. Since then, he has declined. Hakeem didn't average anything close to that... or even to what BAKER averaged this year. Reeves has one of the worst contracts ever. Don't go by that standard. Ilgauskas? He's a good player when he's healthy. Unfortunately, he's simply too injury prone. The Spurs have decided that 7.5 is all they're willing to pay DRobb. Do you people realize how much better he played last year than Hakeem? And that he's younger and more likely to have another good year? I'd rather have Raef Lafrentz than Hakeem. He scores, boards, and blocks more shots. I'd rather have Hakeem than Mohammed... but not by too much, since Mohammed is younger and will likely be injured less. Hakeem's worth about 6 million. Tops. Not even close to the 10 million he's demanded. 10m goes to players who can average 18 points and grab 9 boards. Hakeem ain't one of those. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
With the exception of a few die-hard Hakeem fans, I think we all feel pretty much the same: We'd love to see Hakeem stay another year or two, and we'd hate to see him retire in another uni, but this team is gearing up for future contention and shouldn't be hamstrung in its efforts to do so merely out of loyalty to it's favorite star. I feel like I'm disrespecting Hakeem, and that bothers me because I do love the man, and I am grateful for what he has brought this franchise and this city. But this team is about Steve now, and Cat, and Mo, and Eddie, and all of our other younguns: this team is about growth and greatness to come - specifically, championships in the not-too-distant future. If Hakeem gets in the way of that, than he deserves no respect. I am a Hakeem fan, but I am a Rockets fan first. We have an extremely talented and exciting team now, and we have a first class organization to make sure it matures successfully. If Hakeem wants to be a part of that, then that will make everything all that much better. But if he doesn't, then he'd damn well just better let us know so that the team and organization don't suffer needlessly. Hakeem, we all love you, and we all want you to stay. But please, if you don't want to be a part of the future, then leave gracefully while you still can. If we lose Mo or Shandon or miss an opportunity at a star FA because of Hakeem's dawdling, then I for one will be extremely pissed. If Fegan & Hakeem are playing games, testing the waters, trying to milk the legend, then they need to know that the fans will side with the team. We are not stupid, and our loyalty to the team is greater than that to any individual players - ANY player. Hell, in a nutshell - and I think pretty much everyone can agree with me here - I am a Hakeem fan, but I am a Rockets fan first. ------------------
I'm not positive, but I believe the Hakeem trade was for Doug Christie (great defender and 3 point shooter), Kevin Willis (old, but in excellent shape), and picks 5 AND 12 in the 99-00 Rookie Draft. I wasn't too keen on the idea of the trade at the time due to loyalty, but man do I wish we had done it now! That 5th pick would have been excellent. We could have traded it for Antonio Davis (as Toronto did), or drafted players like Shawn Marion, Wally Szczerbiak, Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller, Jason Terry, Jonathan Bender...the 12th pick could have brought us someone like Corey Maggette, James Posey etc. Imagine this lineup: C: (Jackson/Nazr/Robinson)/Willis/Cato/Collier PF: Taylor/Thomas SF: Marion/Griffin/Maggette/Shandon/Walt/Langhi SG: Mobley/Christie PG: Francis/Mooch We would have more good players than we'd know to do with...we would probably be able to trade quality guys like Christie, Shandon and Maggette who wouldnt get much time at their positions for an even better PF or C. [This message has been edited by SteveFrancis3 (edited July 11, 2001).]
I would hire an agent also if everyone was talking about signing me to a minimum contract. Lets get realistic for a minute. An agents job is to get his players the most money they can get from the team they want to play for. I remember we were all talking about paying Dream the 1 million dollar minimum vet contract for one year. His agent countered with 10 mill/yr for 2 years. Now it is looking very likely that someone will sign him for at least 6 million a year. I think his agent was well worth Dream's money. It's just business guys. Nothing personal. Now, lets not get too heavy on Dream until the 18th. Maybe things are happening that we don't know about. Let's face it, the rockets are pretty good about keeping secrets. Who would have guessed about any of our big trades or signings in the last decade. I was in shock at least four times. (Drexler, Chucky, Francis, Griffin) ------------------
Jumanji - SA only counts 130% of his last year's salary (2.2 million) against the cap as an early bird candidate if not renounced. After the other cap space is used, then the Rockets can go over the cap up to the league average (around 4.5 million) to resign him. New math. As for playing hardball with Hakeem, it is not really hardball to set aside $7 million for him, when nobody else will ever offer him more than $4.5 million. ------------------
rockbox: I can understand that, and I'm sure there's alot going on we don't know about (Doc, another cryptic message would be welcome!), but I still smell something fishy. How hard is it for Hakeem to talk 1-on-1 with CD/RT? It's not like they're strangers. How hard would it be to ask for fair value? I imagine a conversation like this: Hakeem: "I want to play another year, Carrol" CD: "Well, we'd love to have you, Hakeem. How's the vet's minimum - another million - sound?" Hakeem: "No. No, way too low. You know I could get 10 times that anywhere else. I want to stay, and you want me to stay. Higher." CD: "Yeah, didn't think so. Well, you know we're looking at bringing a couple new pieces in, and we've got to leave some space for them. How's 2.5? Now, before you say anything, keep in mind that we want to add a really good big man to help give you a rest when you need it, and we both know you need it every once in a while. Hey, even God had to rest..." (both men laughing) Hakeem: "...Ah-ha-ha. But seriously, keep going. I said 10 times, not two and a half." CD: "He he, hey, OK." (shuffles papers around desk and pretends to study one for a minute) "Oh! Here we go. I've got another deal running with another prospect that looks good, and it fits you in at about 5.5. Better?" Hakeem: "Who's the prospect?" CD: "Aw, c'mon Hakeem, you know I can't say yet. But I'll tell you this: He'll help you and Mo out, big time. Iron man, tough guy, big, nice guy, too. Team has a good chance to contend if we can get him. Play with him, might get another ring. Sound good?" Hakeem: "5.5, contention, backup. Hmmm... Make it 6.5 and I'll think about it." CD: (shuffles papers again, studies one real hard) "S**t. Guy's got a demand that'll leave you 6 - and we gotta lose somebody just to get you that. Agent's an a-hole. Best we can do. But think, 6 mil and possibly another ring. Who's gonna do better than that?" Hakeem: "He's that good?" (CD nods head confidently) "C'mon, who is it?" (CD shakes head) "OK, I'll think about it. Can I get back to you in a couple of days?" CD: "Sure. One thing though: do you mind if I give this guy a call and tell him you're 90%? He's waiting." Hakeem: "Sure, it sounds like a good deal, you can tell him that. I just want to think it over before I commit." CD: "Sure, sure, I understand. You'd be a fool not to. And thanks, Hakeem. This is gonna be a kickass year." (both stand, shake hands; CD picks up phone as Hakeem exits) RT: (walks in CD's office just after Hakeem exits, looks at CD) "What was he so happy about? What's with the grin? What's going on?" OK, I'm sure it wouldn't be exactly like that, but how hard can a verbal agreement be? These people have known each other for years - decades, nearly - and all of a sudden one side brings in a go-between? That sounds like something you do when you begin divorce proceedings. But I guess its just business. (sorry abt the long response time - I've recently lost my right hand to a burn, and am still learning how to type gimp-style...) ------------------
Ok, I believe I understand that. What happens then if they were to say, "ok, SA takes $4.5 but Hakeem balks at $7". Do we still have the $10 to offer DRob? I don't think we do, unless I am still not following all the techs. ------------------ I let the dogs out.
I agree with all of you loyal Hakeem fans. I don't know about you but I grew up watching this guy and this guy was basketball to me.... I hate this whole situation here but guys...can you really imagine it with him on another team. I see why many of you are angry at him and I think he might deserve it. But still he is b-ball to h-town and I would be the first to point out that he isn't worth what he is asking but i don't know.....you know there will be some agreement and the dream will stay. I don't even see it an option for him to leave and It would be wrong to see him go. We don't know enough about the whole situation so lets not go all out blaming the dream aight. ------------------ yeah aight whatever
Great post Viper! ------------------ Protrolls.com! "I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea... Keep the ???? alive!
ok,something must have gone wrong with the negotiations with hakeem and the front office if both of our "insiders" (Doc and pop) are showing their disapproval against hakeem.We all agree we just know dream on the court,we love him because of how he plays,but his true personality must be showing on the disscussions and that's why those two are getting fed up with it along with the rockets front office. & mill,take it or leave it dream....... ------------------ Bigamy is having one wife too many.Monogamy is the same
I truly hope that some behind-the-scenes arrangement is being made. I would never have thought that a Hakeem-less Rockets team would be possible while he can still play. But unfortunately, the option has presented itself (more accurately, Hakeem/Fegan have presented it). We have to consider what will happen if he walks. I can guess with great certainty that the Rox organization did not bring about this situation. It didn't start until the agent showed up. Maybe Hakeem doesn't really even know what's going on. But whatever happens, Rockets first in my mind... ------------------
Great conversation post treeman, cept for one thing Dream wouldn't be involved as he has hired the walking A@sehole in Fegan! ------------------ "The things I enjoy most, I suck at: 1) Sex: everything's fine until she makes noises." - Achebe
That was supposed to be a hypothetical, sans agent (translation: no Fegans present)... But it was funny, yes? ------------------
"The Spurs have decided that 7.5 is all they're willing to pay DRobb. Do you people realize how much better he played last year than Hakeem? And that he's younger and more likely to have another good year?" -No, but why don't you explain to us "how much better" DRob was than Hakeem last year. Their stats are almost identical. Robinson averaged an astonishing 2 ppg more than Olajuwon and shot a lower FG %. Wow, DRob is just so much better than Hakeem right now, nevermind the fact that he has Tim Duncan to take all the defensive pressure off of him inside. -And a new article is out in the SA papers saying that Robinson was offered an 80 % paycut, not the 50 % as reported earlier. This just goes to show you guys that no one really knows what is going on during this FA period, so to crucify Hakeem for things we have no idea he actually said or did, is presumptuous. We'll know the truth eventually on what is really going on between Hakeem and Rudy T/CD, etc so we should wait until then to criticize either party. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Who can wait? Who CAN'T be presumptuous? What else can we do until the 18th except speculate? We're bored. Above all, we're bored. We're going to guess, and guess, and guess until FAs can be signed. We have no ball to watch right now, and the most exciting thing that has happened today is that our backup PF got bit by a small dog, so what else is there? Oooh, summer leagues, hurry up? ------------------
I may well be accused of thievery by doing this, but these words have touched close and may be the only thing that allows me to sleep with good dreams, so I'll steal a little mojo from op and repost them: ECD/RT and the crew patiently wait for Hakeem's ego to be gently stroked, (oops ... sorry, that is .... his keen buisness acumen aclimitaized to the opportunity ... ). It may be a long affair. Meanwhile ... 1. MoTay has been asked to wait while "other" things fall into place. He has said he would be there waiting for the call. 2. Moochie has been assured his contract requests will be taken seriousily, he says "... I know,I trust you guys ..." He hangs around,not fielding many calls. He smiles about Dallas, but his mind is made up. 3. Shandon was told " ... well we may want you back, because we have decided to bring back most of the guys from last year .... what do you think? ... " Shandon answers: " ... well yeah I would like to be here. Can you pay me what my agent says I'm worth? ... " The boys say: " ... we think so, or close to it. We'll be reasonable. Can you hang around for a while ? ..." " ...Yeah, I can. But take me serious,okay?" ........ "Sure. Sure. But ... well can you ask your agent to lighten up a little?" 4. Bull says he'll play for minimum. Or retire. " ... Call me in the Woodlands when you get it all fixed up. I'm going to play golf and play with the kids... " 5. RT and staff scout the summer leagues. 6. Meanwhile, Dan Feigan travels to Atlanta, Indiana, Chicago, Washington, New York, Florida, Phoenix, ... logging up those frequent flyer miles. Sleep tight. ------------------
I have just printed everyone's posts, and since I work less than a mile from Dream's home, I going to place it in his mail box at lunch. I wonder if he will seriously read them and what his reaction will be. Hopefully positive. Dream is why I became a basketball fan back in the PHI SLAMA JAMMA days. Rockets, Dream....let's put this to bed so we can continue to construct an awesome off-season. ------------------ "...Do you hear 'em? They're everywhere!!! AAAHHH!!!" That's what the other teams will be saying after being shellshocked by Steve Francis and Co.
Call me sentimental, but I'd like to see the Rockets NEVER offer Hakeem a contract and just move on. I'd take any of these guys over Hakeem because they have more of a future (in order of preference): 1. Raef LaFrenz 2. Nazr Mohammad 3. David Robinson I'm a thousand miles away, so I'm not so caught up in the sentiment as many of you seem to be. Turning down that Toronto deal was irresponsible by Rockets management in my opinion. Hakeem doesn't deserve to be treated like Bird or Magic. He took the Rockets anywhere near the pinnacle in only 2 of his 17 years. Whoopee. It was exciting, but not worthy of being a deal-killer! If he had been associated with keeping the Rockets as perrenial contenders (a la Bird or Magic), treating him as an icon might have more imperative. But he didn't so we shouldn't. Afterall, we won the title as a 6th seed or therabouts and one of our titles has a profound asterisk beside it! Somewhere between the callousness of Krause and the devotedness of CD/RT is a place to function. Hakeem's recent actions may have just shown us where that place is. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
"Hakeem doesn't deserve to be treated like Bird or Magic. He took the Rockets anywhere near the pinnacle in only 2 of his 17 years. Whoopee." originally posted by RichRocket Whopee, He carried us on his back during those championship days. He always made us a title contender. But with that being said, I do think he should have called the Rockets on July first and called RT himself and state his intentions. Hakeem, quit playing games. Start looking out for the best intrest of the team and sign for 10 millon over 2 seasons. ------------------ Keep Mo Ta & now we have Ta Mo
