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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    That's just nuts. Especially when all the dire forecasts from interventionists don't look remotely plausible at this stage.

    All of Europe will fall? Dynamo effect? Next Hitler? It's been months and he can't even take the eastern cities. If anything time has shown that the best strategy has been taken to slow Putin down and he seems stuck.

    Why on earth would you advocate escalating things to nuclear levels?
     
  2. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    I agree, if you have the patriotism to fight for your liberty then no one should be refused, what does it matter what gender you are? ANYONE who stands up to help fight then let them
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I brought this up in some of the other threads dealing with trans. There are women who can beat men in combat sports. Personally as a smaller guy I can attest that who can win a fight isn't always purely about size and strength.

    Much of combat now though as little to do with size and strength. A woman, a trans woman, a 125 lb guy can just as easily pull a trigger, set a mine, fly a plane or a drone as much as much as 230 lb man.
     
  4. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    The one thing that has surprised me is how ineffective the Russian military really is........all my life I have heard that they had an elite military but the past few weeks have shown a light that Russia was not as prepared as they thought. It surely helps that the west and the EU are supplying the Ukrainians with state of the art firepower, it seems every few days were sending them more and more, I wonder how long the world can sustain this. Is there any scenario where the world can let Putin save face and stop this madness?? The longer this goes the worse the world economics will be
     
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  5. dc rock

    dc rock Member

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    T
    oo bad there’s no way to force Russians to see, like Germans in 1945.

     
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  6. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Yeah but can she tan her testicles?
     
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  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Because he is killing civilians, this is genocide....and it is the right thing to do.

    It is always time to do the right thing.

    DD
     
  8. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Excellent question.

    Next question: Given Putin has to save face, what dramatic step will Putin take? And at what point, will Putin feel desperate enough to take that step?

    My guess is when Russia loses enough armored vehicles and artillery that they are having trouble holding their lines in Ukraine.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I read that due to heavy losses the Ukraine has more tanks than Russia now.

    DD
     
  10. Buck Turgidson

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    You read it here, yesterday, and the key words are available now in country

     
  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    I think the shift to an Eastern battle for the Donbas and a longterm land bridge to Crimea is already him trying to save face in Russia. It seems he's already concluded that he needs to take an exit ramp to a safer bet where he can say he met his objectives.

    However we all know that taking the Eastern part of Ukraine is still too much especially given the amount of carnage and warcrimes committed. He simply will never be an acceptable head of state for the rest of his life so I think the way out of this where everyone walks away saying we can move on now is:

    -Russia signs a treaty and removes all troops from agreed upon areas for good
    -Russia controls Crimea long term along with certain areas of Donbas with a "Demilitarized zone" similar to that of North & South Korea.
    -Russia pays retribution by sending non-military groups in to help clear rubble, rebuild infrastructure, and properly bury dead
    -Putin steps down as President, and moves into new role as senior advisor or Prime Minister. Russia has election to elect new President within 24 months.
    -Ukraine is allowed to join EU
    -Ukraine agrees to stay neutral but has no limitations on military capabilities other than nuclear weapons
    -Ukrainians in East allowed to migrate out of "New Russia" if they choose
    -Ukraine holds mineral and water rights in lands north and west of Crimea with agreement for Russia to pay Ukraine for water supply flowing into Crimea

    This is pretty much the only path I see to "saving face" and even then... this is still too high a price for Ukraine to pay for what they've had to incur so it's unlikely Zelensky accepts it and it's likely that this war just goes on in the East for years and years until Putin dies of old age or a well organized coup.
     
  12. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    There was a proxy war with Russia in Afghanistan in the 80s. And many other wars where we armed one or sometimes both sides. I would put the number of wars the US has been involved in without boots on the ground since WW2 at over 20.
     
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  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Asking Putin to step down is a (neoCon - )liberal pipedream. He has more leverage than the Ayatollahs of Iran or whatever Saddam had before we forcibly removed him.

    Biden flew a trial balloon through senility when he called for Putin's removal, only to have the world speak up against him.

    It's just not realistic.

    The best win condition for the West is to have Putin remove itself from Crimea (relinquishing control of Sevastopol is likely a non-starter) and other occupied Ukrainian territories. It's just harder to think they can turn back the clock and pretend nothing happened. Parts of eastern Ukraine is still itching to go Russian while I'm sure some of the Ukranians there will want payback and some form of ethnic cleansing to feel safe again.

    Redrawing borders might even be possible in order to satisfy Putin's initial claims (to save face under heavy losses) and also to relocate Russian Ukranians.

    ...Or we can play Russian Hold'em and call dem bluffs. All in nukes b****es. Who's yo daddy??
     
  14. dc rock

    dc rock Member

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  15. basso

    basso Member
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    it's a mystery.

    Mystery over FOUR 'suspicious suicides' of Russian gas execs: Two more top industry figures 'linked to Putin's circle' are revealed to have killed themselves amid probes into 'murder-suicides' of two businessmen and their families
    • Sergey Protosenya was found hanged in Spain with his wife and daughter killed
    • Spanish police said no suicide note was left and no fingerprints were on weapon
    • Earlier, Vladislav Avayev, his wife and daughter died in another 'murder-suicide'
    • In February, two further gas executives died in suspicious circumstances
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ides-Russian-gas-executives-linked-Putin.html
     
  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    I'm going out on a limb and saying something is up in Russia.
     
  17. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Should we invade China?
     
  18. LosPollosHermanos

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    We killed Iraqis and afghanis, escalating this into a world war at this point is insane. Explore outside of austin for once
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Maybe some day.

    DD
     
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  20. Cokebabies

    Cokebabies Member

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    You mean should we invade China, again. =P
     

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