Carlos Correa to the Twins - 3 Years, $105 Million

once again 3 years (At worst) is less than 5 years …. 99% chance it’s a one year deal regardless and we can both develop pena more and have Correa for one more real shot at a championship… no brainer

if you are fine with a 5 year deal you should be fine with a 3 year deal with or without opt outs.

This is such an illogical argument…and you guys are using circular reasoning to try and make it make sense lol

3 year is less risk than 5 years if you are willing to give 5 you should be happy with 3 years with or with our opt ins/outs. If you are scared he won’t preform for at least 1 year (if he does he’s opting out) how can you give him a 5 year deal???? Lol

This is essentially a one year deal unless he gets catastrophically injured and then we go on another 1 year deal next year which still okay because that’s still our window with our core and if he’s is still injured year 3 then we got out with only a 3 year deal instead of 5. So the worst case scenario is still optimal…….

Geez people it’s not rocket appliance here

 

Same deal basically lol

 

if the model is to not spend on high AAV position players, fine.

Then spend the money to help the team, the current freaking defending AL champs. Sign a CF. Sign more relief pitching, Whatever you think of Kenley Jansen for example, it’s a one year deal. Create the lock down bullpen that we had to face against the Braves.

Not signing Correa is understandable. Fine, they dont like the value, so they made a 5 year offer that they knew he would never take. Ok.

But where is FA help. Tommy Pham on a one year deal is a meaningful upgrade over what we have.

I think it is foolish to just think, well we can trade for an impact bat or pitcher at the deadline. With the 12 team playoff format, there will be more buyers than ever before. And we don’t exactly have a killer farm system replete with elite prospects that are the necessary trade currency,

 

Correa is gone… doesn’t matter anymore.

 

Part of being an owner, just like when we play fantasy football. Decisions might not work.

If Correa had a great year with Astros with that 3 year deal …he would be gone. He didn’t want to stay.
He would have only stayed if he sucks this year and his market value isn’t great.

He’s gone, let’s hope Peña looks promising and this time next year we have a solid SS for the future.

 

Fans believe what they want to believe too. All accounts are that Carlos was literally giving the Astro every opportunity to give him a contract worth staying over. The 5 year deal was a non-starter for any 27 year old all-star caliber player. Pena is a 24 year old who’s about to make his debut… he’d probably be in line for that 5 year deal at age 30 if he pans out.

We’ve already gone over some recent owner decisions that didn’t work and possibly cost the Astros one more championship. There’s still some unknowns regarding how the JV/LMJ and even Bregman deals end up working out.

 

he is gone. Fact.

Crane pocketed that money and hasn’t improved the team. Also fact … so far. If crane doesn’t want the criticism, then do something. Crane can’t tell me he’s all about winning if he is leaving bullets in the chamber. To gloss over this is not holding ownership accountable to the fan base.

 

Dudes.... this really isn't hard.
1) If you sign Correa long term, you lose financial flexibility but you have a trade chip in Pena to use as needed.
2)If you let Correa go, you keep Pena and you have financial flexibility to address issues as needed.
3) But if you sign Correa to essentially a one year deal, you have no financial flexibility and you can't trade Pena. So all decisions to improve the team become painful.

 

All I just say gotta is **** Correa for leaving! It was all on him if he wanted to stay and compete for many championships with his boys. **** him! Time to move on!

 

You're right...I thought read it was for sure happening in 2023 but I did see they are testing it in AA so that wouldn't make sense if that was the case. If the tweets/article I just read regarding the potential ban is accurate, it appears the MLB does have the authority now to implement it without the MLBPA in addition to the new CBA change for a shorter voting/implementation period that allows them to get it passed in time to start the 2023 season...

I don't see many scenarios where it's not coming soon to ballparks nationwide opening day 2023!

Not trying to derail this thread and this is a case where everyone is untitled to their own opinion and I completely understand why many are opposed to the idea. That said, I personally am on the other side of the fence here...and when I first heard about the idea, coming from someone who played 15 years of baseball in a consistently competitive environment, I actually was 100% against it as well.

That said, this may be one of the very few times I was actually convinced to drop my viewpoint (not just sports/baseball lol I'm hard headed so talking anything here) and agree with those arguing for the ban. I'm sure you've seen the argument and doubt it will change your opinion but for those on the fence it might. So here it is...

Ted Williams didn't play in an era where computers not only existed but were able to collect extensive, overwhelming amounts of data on almost anything you can think of and/or find a reason to track. It's gotten to the point where teams can track what inning that chili dog you ate at the Houston Rodeo the night before is going to start kicking in during the Sunday day game and cause you to not be able to run down a fly ball in the gap as you attempt to hold that s*** in for 3 more seemingly never ending outs....

LOL got a bit carried away there but it's ridiculous how much data teams have available on hitters and how proficient the data scientists and programs are in utilizing that data to not only position their fielders BUT also pitch you in the exact sequence that will most likely result in you hitting into the shift or striking out. On top of that, starting pitchers are seemingly becoming more and more a thing of the past - this past post season reached incredible new levels in the amount of outs from SP vs RP. Therefore, hitters not only are having to battle the data that already completely favors pitchers in that it exposes any weaknesses you have as a hitter, but it also further exacerbates the issue by also telling defenses exactly where to line up to get you out. In summary, over the past decade or so, hitters have had to battle the following:

1. Pitchers have the luxury of knowing every single weakness you have as a batter with the aforementioned infinite amount of data available to them/teams making it a lot tougher to hit as it is...
2. Oh and now the starters can max out knowing they are only expected to go 2 times through the lineup these days and therefore you as a hitter no longer have the benefit of seeing them that third time where by now you've seen everything they had to offer...
   
3. And yep, then comes the relievers (e.g. Emmanuel Clase and his 102 mph cutter) that now all seemingly throw 98+ mph and/or have some breaking ball with a ridiculous spin rate wicked movement...
   
4. Finally, if by some MIRACLE you find a way to combat all of the above advantages pitchers have these days and you manage to square up one of those 101 mph cutters from Clase and hit a 100+ mph line drive that is headed for the gap in righ...
5. Oh wait nope sorry, there's the 3B playing rover there to catch your that ****. Should have tried taking that 102 mph cutter in on your hands and finding somewhere they weren't at!

Obviously the above is exaggerated to a certain extent but I'm also quite frankly kind of tired of seeing guys hit those hard liners to the opposing teams' SS/3B playing shallow right field. IMO it's ridiculous that left handed hitters end up holding the short end of the stick simply because the inventor of baseball decided on running the bases counter clockwise instead of clockwise...

So with all due respect, simply "spraying it to all fields" or "hitting the ball harder" like the Ted Williams approach IMO is a bit outdated and we very well could have seen Ted Williams struggle if he had all of the above going against him.

Finally, in response to your statement "what's next? after this they'll be looking to make other rule changes like shrinking the strike zone"...well they actually ALREADY DID THAT back in 1968 in addition to lowering the mound the same year because the balance was out of whack between hitting and pitching similar to right now. Apparently the legends you speak of couldn't figure out how to just simply hit it harder or hit it where they weren't

P.S. - Just giving you a hard time at the end there...once again totally understand you and others who don't want to ban the shift!

 

Not sure how 2/$66M = 3/$105M? And if you are comparing his current deal where he has a player's option...newsflash, there is a minimum innings pitched he has to hit for him to be able to pick up the option. Correa can literally not play a single game after this season and collect $70M in 2023 and 2024 while getting back massages.

Regardless, go look at the top 7 paid players in baseball and let me know if you notice a trend.

Hint #1: Finding a starter with the potential JV has is incredibly hard.
Hint #2: More teams are willing to risk big money on starting pitchers, hence why the majority of the top paid players in baseball are...you guessed it...starting pitchers.

Still not convinced? Last time I checked we won that 2017 WS because we traded for JV. If we didn't get him that year we don't win...it's that simple. Correa has had PLENTY of time to win another one for us...how exactly did that work out? That was while he was on a team friendly deal too...

 

Also, just throwing this out there but...

Let's say Pena is the real deal...well clearly we made the right decision moving on.

On the other hand, let's say it's clear he isn't the answer long term...

GUESS WHO WILL STILL BE AVAILABLE DURING NEXT THE OFF-SEASON?!?!?

 

What about if he has a MVP caliber season and then he opts out for the 10 year deal he wanted? You're completely ignoring the potential upside of the 5 year deal where in that scenario we now have him on a team friendly deal for the following four seasons.

I hope the posters who are failing to understand the difference have a good money manager and don't trade stocks...or even worse, options.

 

I don’t have access to the article- but I’m intrigued to find out who is saying Pena will be a “superstar”. High praise for the young fella

 

Con arguments:

1. I'll just mention that they have this same data on the pitchers.

2. Trends of less than three years are essentially irrelevant because of COVID related changes.

3. We haven't seen the full effect of the three batter rule yet or the 13 pitcher limit.

I'm left with baseball as the only sport I can stomach precisely because it still retains a little of the game played in my youth unlike football (pansy penalties for contact) or basketball (why even pretend dribbling is still part of the game.)

I admit I do not like the trend of using 7-10 pitchers a game and endless mound visits. But I think the rules already in place with resolve these irritations given a normal season.

 

People who love small sample sizes. Pena has always been a plus defender. But last year his OPS was 944 with 10 HR in 133 PA at Sugar Land. If he can sustain that in the Big League, he's an elite superstar SS. But it's far more likely to be an aberration than a trend. But every superstar breaks out sometime and Pena's young enough to have a breakout.

 

And perhaps in a more reasonable mind set. It's just as likely that HE wouldn't be our first choice if SS is the need. Great complete shortstops aren't nearly as rare as they once were. The days of Metzger and Everett are over. It's a shame in a way because they were the defensive equivalent of the DH.

 

Spoiler

Astros second baseman Jose Altuve isn’t one to speak in superlatives, but sitting at his locker Wednesday morning, he made a bold prediction about his new double-play partner, rookie shortstop Jeremy Peña.

“He’s going to be a superstar,” Altuve said. “I can tell by his attitude. He cares. He wants to be the best.”

....

But a potential superstar? Really? Astros third baseman Alex Bregman, informed of Altuve’s prediction for Peña, nodded in affirmation.

“I believe it,” Bregman said.

Insert Scola "He look OK" meme here.

 

Astros second baseman Jose Altuve isn’t one to speak in superlatives, but sitting at his locker Wednesday morning, he made a bold prediction about his new double-play partner, rookie shortstop Jeremy Peña.

“He’s going to be a superstar,” Altuve said. “I can tell by his attitude. He cares. He wants to be the best.”

As Altuve spoke, the player Peña is replacing, Carlos Correa, could be seen on the clubhouse television, conducting his introductory news conference with the Minnesota Twins. The Astros will always revere Correa, 27, as both a player and leader. But they also adore Peña, 24, viewing him as an emerging prodigy, gifted, hard-working and mature.

Peña projects as a defense-first type, at least initially. But Altuve sees him developing into a player who can hit .280 with 20 homers and a .900 OPS. “He’s going to steal bases, too,” Altuve said. “They say he’s faster than me. I don’t think so. But he’s pretty fast.”

Troy Snitker, the Astros’ co-hitting coach, describes Peña as a “twitch freak,” referring to the quick-twitch muscles common in elite athletes. Bench coach Joe Espada, who works with the team’s infielders, also raved about Peña’s physical attributes, but added he was equally impressed with the shortstop’s field awareness, his baseball IQ.

High praise, particularly for a player who has appeared in only 182 minor-league games, and only 30 above Class A. Peña, the Astros’ third-round pick in 2018, had his first professional season curtailed by shin splints after 36 games. He missed all of 2020 because of the cancellation of the minor-league season, and appeared in only 37 games last season after undergoing left wrist surgery in April.

Yet Peña, the son of Gerónimo Peña, an infielder with the Cardinals and Indians from 1990 to 1996, is not exactly inexperienced. He spent the past two offseasons playing for Estrellas in the Dominican winter league. He also was part of the Astros’ taxi squad last postseason, attending meetings, participating in workouts, asking questions of Altuve and Correa. Astros GM James Click said the experience was, “like going to graduate school for baseball.”

“This is not new for him,” Espada said. “He has been around us. He kind of knows how to go about things.”

But a potential superstar? Really? Astros third baseman Alex Bregman, informed of Altuve’s prediction for Peña, nodded in affirmation.

“I believe it,” Bregman said.

Mets second Robinson Canó, Peña’s teammate with Estrellas during the offseason, also was enthusiastic in his evaluation.

“He’s an athlete,” Canó said of Peña. “He can run. He can move, hit for power, too. For me, he has all the tools.

“He’s going to be a superstar, for sure.”

Gerónimo Peña’s last major-league season was in 1996, the year before Jeremy was born. Jeremy, the second of four children, was born in the Dominican Republic. His family moved to Providence, R.I., when he was 12, following an aunt of Jeremy’s who already lived there.

Jeremy Peña was not some hotshot at Classical High School, drawing major college and professional interest. But when he was a senior, his summer-ball coach, Franklin Salcedo, sent video of Peña to Nick Derba, the coach at the University of Maine. Salcedo had a connection to the program. His brother, Jonathan, was Maine’s catcher.

“I was in a car, like, 24 hours later,” Derba said.

Derba, a 30th-round pick of the St. Louis Cardinals in 2007, was a catcher and left fielder in the Cardinals’ system from 2007 to 2012. Peña, in his estimation, weighed only 150 pounds the first time Derba saw him play. No matter.

“This is the best shortstop I’ve ever seen in high school,” Derba thought. “This is a professional defender right now.”

Derba did not fear losing Peña to another college as much as he did to a major-league club that might draft him. Peña, however, lasted until the 39th round in 2015 back when the draft consisted of 40 rounds instead of the current 20. The area scout who recommended him to the Braves, Greg Morhardt, had spearheaded the Los Angeles Angels’ selection of Mike Trout with the 25th pick six years earlier, and the Atlanta Braves’ choice of Ian Anderson with the third pick one year later.

Morhardt, now with the Boston Red Sox, said Peña was a below-average runner his junior year of high school, but by his senior year he was above-average and growing stronger. Defense was not a concern; Peña had natural actions, a quick first step and good hands. Yet the Braves did not sign him after committing most of their draft budget to their top picks, which included right-hander Mike Soroka at 28th overall, third baseman Austin Riley at 41st and left-hander A.J. Minter at 75th. Peña rejected the team’s offer of a $130,000 bonus and went to Maine.

“He definitely was one that got away,” said Brian Bridges, the Braves’ former scouting director who is now a national cross-checker with the San Francisco Giants.

At Maine, Peña grew into the player Derba envisioned, not that it was always easy in the cold, northeastern climate. Peña recalls one game moving from UMass-Lowell to Maine because icy, snowy conditions made the natural-grass field at UMass-Lowell unplayable. Maine had artificial turf, and the players and coaches spent the night before the game chopping ice and shoveling snow. “I literally had a jackhammer in the dugout getting the ice out,” Derba said. The game was played with snow on the warning track. Anything hit in the gaps was a ground-rule double.

Still, Peña has only fond memories of Maine, and Derba only fond memories of Peña. At one point during Peña’s sophomore or junior year, Derba told him, “There’s a pretty good chance you’ll be the best player I ever coach.”

Peña conducted himself professionally from the moment he arrived on campus and often was the best player on the field, even against top competition, Derba said. “And he was so coachable,” Derba added. “Like, uber-ly coachable.”

The Astros’ area scout, Bobby St. Pierre, noticed Peña’s body and athleticism improving every year at Maine. By his junior season, he was making more of an impact offensively and producing better running times. The Astros targeted a number of infielders in the third round. Six shortstops were taken ahead of Peña in that round alone, but the Astros were not disappointed. They grabbed Peña with the 102nd pick and signed him for $535,000.

“We felt there was still more in the tank,” said Astros scouting director Kris Gross, who was then a national cross-checker. “We were elated to take him.”

The Astros’ scouting director at the time, Mike Elias, was the driving force behind the team making Correa the first overall pick in 2012. The 2018 draft would be Elias’ last with the Astros before the Orioles hired him as general manager that November. Little did he know, he was taking the player who would one day replace Correa.

“That was never a thought,” Elias said. “We were just trying to make a good third-round pick.”

 

In January 2019, seven months after he was drafted, Peña strolled by two Astros officials at the team’s academy in the Dominican Republic.

“Man, that dude looks like a totally jacked-up Jeremy Peña with 25 pounds of muscle on him,” one official said.

“Uh, that is Jeremy Peña,” the other official replied.

Peña, coming off shin splints and a sub-par showing in his first pro season, sought to improve his conditioning. From his home in Providence, he would drive 70 minutes north to Cressey Sports Performance in Massachusetts, working with a physical therapist to correct the foot strike in his running form.

The changes in Peña were noticeable by the time he arrived at the Astros’ complex in Santo Domingo to prepare for spring training — and after he broke out with a .303 batting average and .825 OPS at two levels of A ball.

“I don’t know that I’ve ever met anybody who is addicted to effort as much as him,” Jason Bell, the Astros’ field coordinator, told The Athletic’s Jake Kaplan in March 2021. “What I mean by that is there are a lot of people who work hard. There are a lot of players who can use that word ‘focus’ and work hard and those buzz words. But then they spend time around Jeremy and you see them kind of begin to really question if they’re working hard, if they’re really focusing.”

Added Click, the Astros’ GM: “Everything we have seen from him gives us confidence that he’s the real deal. He has had some injuries the past couple of years. But even with those injuries, he did everything he could to continue to progress, to continue to get his body in shape.”

Peña credits his work ethic to his parents, whom he describes as, “very humble human beings.” His diligence stands out even in a clubhouse full of obsessive tinkerers. Bregman said every time he sees Peña, he notices him working on an aspect of his game. Altuve sees the same type of drive in Peña that so many great players possess.

“I can tell — he will be hungrier and hungrier, year after year,” Altuve said. “He’ll never be satisfied. I think he’ll spend his entire career trying to get better.”

More than a half-century in Major League Baseball gives Astros manager Dusty Baker the wisdom of perspective.

Baker, 72, was supposed to be the next Hank Aaron, and he wasn’t the only player from his era who faced outsized expectations. Barry Bonds was supposed to be the next Willie Mays, Bobby Murcer the next Mickey Mantle, Don Baylor the next Frank Robinson.

“It’s not fair to make those comparisons,” Baker said. “You’ve got to let them be themselves. And if they happen to be close to those comparisons, you’ve got a helluva player.”

Baker was referring, of course, to the idea of Peña being the next Correa, an idea no one with the Astros is suggesting, even as they talk excitedly about Peña’s potential and future.

Canó told Peña when they were winter-ball teammates this offseason, “Be ready. You might be the everyday shortstop.” Peña, though, said he paid little attention to Correa’s free agency.

“I’ll be honest with you. I didn’t really follow the Carlos situation a lot. That was between him and the organization,” Peña said. “This winter, with the lockout, I focused on playing baseball in the Dominican Republic and getting ready to compete in spring training.”

One rival scout, describing Peña as a “legit shortstop with some pop,” still predicts he might struggle offensively. A difficult start would not be a surprise. Few rookies transition easily to the majors. The difference with Peña, those who know him say, is that he will not crack under the pressure of replacing Correa.

Espada, who was a coach with the Yankees from 2015 to 2017 before joining the Astros, compares Peña’s challenge to the situation Didi Gregorius faced replacing Derek Jeter in 2015. Gregorius was 25 then, and had only 191 games of major-league experience.

“It was, ‘Didi, you’re not here to replace Jete, which is impossible to do. We went out and acquired you because we know you could be the shortstop for the New York Yankees because of your skills, your ability to play on this big stage.’” Espada said. “I’m using some of those experiences with Jeremy.

“He’s not saying, ‘I’m here to replace Carlos Correa.’ (It’s), ‘No, I’m here to be the shortstop of the Houston Astros. I’m just going to be Jeremy Peña.’ Which is super important.”

Derba cannot imagine his former player being overwhelmed.

“There is nothing that fazes that kid,” Derba said. “He believes in himself. He is his own harshest critic. He’s not living up to anyone else’s standard but his own, which is very high.”

Still, it’s spring training. Every veteran is in the best shape of his life. Every rookie is poised to make an impact. The truth will emerge, as it always does, once the regular season commences, and the 162-game grind begins.

Peña, at least, will benefit from his two seasons in winter ball, and his time with the Astros last postseason. He also will benefit, in the opinion of backup infielder Aledmys Díaz, a native of Cuba, from the guidance and support of the Astros’ sizable Latin contingent, which includes three prominent veterans — Altuve, first baseman Yuli Gurriel and catcher Martín Maldonado.

One positive sign, both Díaz and Espada noted, is that the game does not seem to be speeding up on Peña the way it often does for young players. His demeanor is calm. His tempo at shortstop is steady. Yet, as Espada rattles off some of Peña’s attributes — “he’s explosive, he’s fast, he’s very dynamic” — he sees the potential for him to excite fans, energize the entire industry.

Altuve does, too.

“Keep your eye on him,” Altuve said. “He’s going to be good.”