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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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  2. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    I find it silly that Ukraine is arming civilians with guns and weapons and hence blurring the lines between a combatant and a civilian. Then you are worried that Russians are killing civilians? No shayt buddy! This world is so screwed up, we have to get beyond tribalism, it is the core of all problems on this planet.
     
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  3. Blatz

    Blatz Member

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    There is a difference between the armed civilians defending their country being killed and the civilians trying to flee with their children or hide in shelters being deliberately targeted and killed. I know the lines can be blurred sometimes tragically and I know it is possible that there could be some sort of military target inside a hospital or a line of busses but I am not giving Putin the benefit of the doubt right now.

    Edit: Not that I think you are giving him the benefit of the doubt
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  5. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Full article at link. Great read.

    Putin bares the flaws of autocracy for world to see - CSMonitor.com

    In recent years authoritarianism has sometimes seemed the rising form of national government. China built a huge economy, lifting millions out of poverty, with a circumscribed autocratic leadership. Russia recovered from post-Soviet chaos as President Vladimir Putin amassed power.

    In just three weeks, Russia’s war in Ukraine has done a lot to call the autocratic model into question, because the invasion so obviously has gone nothing like Mr. Putin expected.

    China too has seemed unprepared for the geopolitical turmoil that followed Russia’s invasion. Far-right populist politicians in the West with Russian ties, such as France’s Marine Le Pen and Italy’s Matteo Salvini, are rushing to distance themselves from Mr. Putin.

    “With authoritarian regimes, the risk is that power becomes so centralized in one person or a small group and they end up just only hearing the information that they want to hear,” says Michael Beckley, a Tufts University political scientist and co-author of a Foreign Affairs analysis on how Ukraine is fortifying democracies.

    “Dictators, just because they’re so used to being able to exercise power by fiat at home, suddenly have a rude awakening when they try to push abroad,” he says.
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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    great thread. it's wonderful to see the times do real journalism again.

     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Because you still have to try for peace even if it's likely to fail. Work for the best outcome, prepare for the worst.

    The difference between Trump and Biden is this. Trump would have been far more sympathetic to Russia, unlikely to impose severe sanctions, and unlikely to send much in military aid to Ukraine. In fact, he might have withdrawn from NATO to give Putin the green light to take more countries.

    Putin wanted to invade Ukraine during Trump's presidency, but his advisors suggest he wait for Trump to be reelected first as he didn't want to put Trump in a bind.
     
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  9. basso

    basso Member
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    is Trump the standard by which you measure all presidents?
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Given the chorus of conservatives saying Trump would have been better, I think it's appropriate to state the difference.
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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  12. basso

    basso Member
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    who is the president now, and how should he/she/they be judged?
     
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  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Conservatives: Biden is a disaster. Trump would be MUCH better

    Someone else: Well, here's why Biden is actually doing well, and Trump wouldn't have been better

    Conservatives: Stop comparing to Trump! Biden is president!
     
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  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Typical dipshit armchairing to absolve the role Trump and even Bush had in this mess. They magically pretend Obama Biden are dicking around with Ukraine/Putin and promote a solution that has already been tried and failed before.

    No imagination. No answers. Only weak impotent b****ing.
     
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  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    So the NYT is doing real journalism again because it is behind a war narrative. How about their real journalism around Trump. and Jan 06 for instance?
     
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  17. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    Biden is getting my vote again
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The one thing that might be good out of this is a calling into question authoritarianism and those who support it.

    As the article notes this should give the Xi Jinping a pause but it should also give the Bolsanaros, Erdogans and Modis something to think about the limits of authoritarian nationalist rule.
     
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  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Real journalism by basso means supporting the right wing agenda.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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