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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    He is all in on the appeasement route. At least give him credit for stating that (although he tried to sound nuanced later lol). I think Mojo is so attached to Trump that he has to take Trump's position: everyone is very dumb except for Putin and gives Putin whatever he wants.
     
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  2. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Eh, to me it's like labeling all Hispanic people as brown when there are in fact some blonde haired blue eyed tanned Hispanic people that came from brown looking parents. Or saying people from Spain who conquered regions of Central America as well as France, who you would typically consider white that got frisky with those they enslaved back in the day and now have a history that is more intermixed than anything. I mean I come from mixed parents and depending on how much sun I get I could pass for a white guy or a tanned Mexican and when I let my hair grow out an Orthodox Jewish person or have been confused for someone in the Middle East before or that I was Muslim or Japanese and once Vietnamese. And it brings an interesting experience around the good ole boys just having their locker room banter thinking I'm one of them when the stereotypes I've heard made about minorities, of which I am also, are typically to debase brown people as though forced historical oppression back in the day and stealing of resources isn't going to have some influence on the day to day affairs of people that live in 3rd world countries at present.

    I mean it'd be a disingenuous take to say that the effects of America's Civil War aren't still felt on some level to present day right? As in we had to make Constitutional Amendment changes after the war, policy changes, the repercussions of lives lost, the continued disenfranchising of minorities, all of which have rippling effects to U.S. citizens at present. Therefore I find it easier to understand that third world nations that were conquered in the past by fallen empires and never got any restitution for all the destruction left behind and stolen resources which created a vacuum for the existing wealthy that remained in those nations to form monopolies while many of the remaining citizens suffer and continue to suffer absent a voice or any authoritative power to improve their quality of life more than what their environment makes available to them.

    So it's a common tactic to **** on 3rd world countries yet crypto bros in search of the cheapest sustainable energy sources are more than happy to exploit other countries' energy grids at the greater expense of those citizens day to day needs. And for what? Some manufactured token of a coin that's hoarded for wealth for people already wealthy. Yet it's revolutionary and is going to change everything from it's proponents. How people don't see the constant exploitation of 3rd world nations to the benefit of our everyday lives here in the states is beyond me. That's why I personally don't get any populist agenda pushers. We're already so interwoven in our own economy with other nations that I think we're past the point of no return.

    That said, genuinely creating policies that benefit our own neighbors, you would think would cause less people to want to immigrate here because their own country is prosperous enough in it's own right which you would think would be a good thing to people who are so gung-ho about preserving their own perceived precious culture in the states. Therefore, if we exploited other nations less and in fact created policies that benefitted other nations more while still benefitting the U.S., you would think there would be less overall suffering than there currently is in the world and that other nations who oppose American ideologies would be even more hard pressed to manufacture propaganda that would harm U.S. interests and in general the interest of a more peaceful, prosperous and sustainable world for even those enduring the worst of it in the human condition.

    If you genuinely manufacture good policies to the benefit of more of everyone, there would be less suffering in the world and less of the ugliness we all experience on some level in our day to day lives. I don't see how people of different ideological perspectives in our own political spectrum don't see how improving the lives of those enduring the worst of it in this world, would still be beneficial to them in rippling effects by having a safer, happier, healthier, more sustainable community to share and be a part of.

    And that actually being responsible for making the world better, would make it easier to hold rival nations with opposing ideologies that are inherently destructive more accountable. Because if the rest of the developed world is actually doing better than it currently is, that means less influence of other nations who you just know their own nation's citizens are suffering too. Like I can for instance oppose Russia, while still understand that someone's grandmother in some small town equivalent to Lampasas, Texas, is just wanting to go about her day to day affairs in a safe and peaceful environment for her and her loved ones. Her and people she considers family likely have very little stake in the conquering of the Ukraine. But the billionaires that fund the war do obviously right? However if the people of Russia actually saw the rest of the world surpassing them, including those form 3rd world nations, you would think the people of Russia would actually want in on proven effective policies that would benefit them more than oligarchs and a dictator's vision of the world would provide. And if Russia's citizens morale is low enough in it's own leaders to want to make considerable effective policies that would benefit them after observing the rest of the world pass them by, nations like the U.S. and NATO would have even more leverage in the negotiation table than they do at present. Apologies for this rant by the way as it's not really directed at you or anyone in particular. More just word vomiting my thoughts so far.
     
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Geez, take the Racist crap to another thread and let's talk about it there, here we should be talking about the Ukraine - please try to stay on topic.....create your own thread about White, Brown, Orange, whatever color or race you want to talk about and go to town.

    Here should be a place to keep up with what is going on in the Ukraine to it's people (Of all color).

    DD
     
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  4. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    That should somehow get to Russia for it's people to see what their government is doing.

    We need to break their information gridlock and reach out directly to the people....

    DD
     
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  6. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Sorry to bud in. I think there is bias in anything. But I think the amount of attention this invasion is getting has less to do with bias and more to do geopolitical stakes and threats it possesses. This would be the same if war broke out with North and South Korea and same with China and Taiwan. The stakes are higher and concern is deep. Bias maybe in reporting not in the attention it garners because of what the threat is.
     
    Sweet Lou 4 2 likes this.
  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    There are about 1M Jews in Russia. War and Russian society go really badly, Putin can always blame the Jew. Israel's reluctance in supplying military weapons could be their fear of that.

    The ADL GLOBAL 100: An Index of Anti-Semitism

    [​IMG]
     
  8. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    Very interesting read. If true, which I have no reason to believe it’s not, what a miscalculation on Putin’s part. I mean, you’re trying to take over an entire country. You don’t in a sense bluff when trying to take over. Wow just wow.

    Can you imagine the backlash here if one of our leaders was to make this same kind of mistake? It’s not a game. You go in and handle business, there is no bluffing. You aren’t so reckless with the lives of your people. Gotta be embarrassing for Putin, I would think.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    Israel, the ally who expects us to always have their backs at all times no matter what, has deep ties and good relations with Russia. That's despite Russia's ties to Iran who wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. Politics make for strange partnerships.
     
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  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I don’t think it is the fear of Russia extermination of the Jews. Russia and Israel have military agreements that Israel doesn’t want to lose.
     
  11. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    And they use Syria air space to attack targets. They need Russia.
     
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    The whole thing is a cluster****. Israel relies on Russia to keep Iranians in Syria in check. Iran relies on Russia to keep Syrian regime in power. Syrian government hates Israel. Israel is committing same crimes as Russia in Palestine. We committed the same crimes in Iraq. Saddam committed the same crimes as did ISIS. Turkey is going after Kurds and allowed Azerbaijan to crush Armenia.

    It feels like we are slipping back in time except replace Europe with China in Africa.
    Instead of Gunpowder Empires we will have Atomic Empires.

    [​IMG]
     
    #3652 Ubiquitin, Mar 3, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
  13. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Trade and weapons supply make strange bedfellows.

    India are in conflict with China & Pakistan. Yet, are all supporting Russia agaisnt the rest of the world.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I think you are partially right but I still think it's a bigger force than many are realizing.

    For instance you mention China invading Taiwan...yet when China suppressed Hong Kong there wasn't a ton of fuss - in fact Daryl Morey's tweet seemed to be what got the most attention for the controversy it created. I have no doubt that if China invaded Taiwan or North Korea invaded South that it would be a big deal and big news.

    What I am saying the American public wouldn't empathize nearly as much as they do with Ukraine. I feel it would be more about containing China / North Korea and whether this will drag us into war vs the human toll and empathy.

    With Ukraine, yes it is a threat, but there is a huge tremendous upwelling of support for Ukrainians.

    We saw the same thing when France was the target of terrorist attacks. How many people changed their FB profile with the overlay of the french flag? 17 people died in those attacks. Yet the day before, up to 2,000 were killing in a terrorist attack in Nigeria by Islamic Extremism. Most people wouldn't even be able to recall that, but they would remember the attacks in France.

    Anyway, I feel like I am beating a deadhorse here so no point in discussing further.
     
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  15. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    It's absolutely awful that Ukrainian civilians are getting hit with bombs and artillery. Look at the devastation...





    Only problem.... that's not Ukraine. It's Raqqa and Mosul after we flattened them with airstrikes and artillery to defeat Isis strongholds. We killed a bunch of civillians. This doesn't excuse Russia's actions in Ukraine, but let's at least be honest on what warfare looks like when we do it as well.
     
  16. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Don’t forget the geopolitical spheres in Africa as well.
     
  17. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    I was literally just talking to my 12 year old son about something similar. As Americans and humans for that matter, we will never fully agree on everything, and that’s ok. There are things that I feel we should mostly be united on, and this is one of those things.

    The constant divide and rhetoric on all sides has gotten way out of hand. I wish we could all do much better.
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    That's not what Tucker Carlson is saying. He wasn't referencing sanctioning oil but sanctions that destroy the Russian economy.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    I wonder what the sanction would do there. Seems like it would exactly target these types of military exchange, if any, and effectively eliminate them. Now, Israel did officially vote for a UN resolution condemning Russia, but their Prime Minister hasn't been outspoken against Russia. I think the fear is always in the back of their head.
     
  20. SuraGotMadHops

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