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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Then they'll pin rising gas prices and inflation on Biden should an embargo hit (if they aren't already).

    It's cynically dumb, though effective enough for the cartoonist to have permanent employment playing for either team.
     
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  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    It doesn't. This is for state media propaganda.

    Also Putin hasn't really been delivering the most careful pretexts for war anyways. I don't think he really cares how well the pretexts are delivered just as long as he has something to say in the future. Lukashenko also is sort of a dumba$$ much like Trump personality wise. The belligerence to just do things out in the open and play to an audience who just needs a talking point is the point of them being who they are.

    It's easy to fact check Trump's lies here in the US, but his hard liners are coached to respond in a way that excuses his behavior by just drowning out the room with Bullsh$t. Lukashenko has that same advantage of Bullsh$t filling the room and he has a better grip on controlling the media.
     
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  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I'm not glossing over anything. There are hundreds of pages on this forum in discussion about this haven't you been paying attention? And we ourselves have debated heavily on this.

    So to bring up something else is now glossing over? We're not allowed to talk about race now? BS


    And Russia had nukes when it invade Georgia and Chechnya so your argument doesn't hold water anyway.
     
  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    What world do you live in? 90% brown people is complete BS. Screenshot_20220303-100514.png
     
  5. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    I agree.
     
  6. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    What I find funny are the right calling the left communists yet there is more gop on the right that seem to be pro Putin. Hmm makes you think for a sec doesn’t it
     
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  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Exactly. Even in the most "Russian Reliant" years the US has at most gotten 11% of is petro imported from Russia. 11% is still alot of oil but it's not like we RELY on it. It'll just lower the supply by 11% for the short term until another petro state like Saudi Arabia gives in and sells the US an increased amount. Right now Saudi and the UAE are trying to show favor with Russia because they have interests to keep that relationship going, but eventually money talks, and the US has money to spend on crude oil.

    Over the coming weeks I guarantee you the CEO's of Exxon, Shell, BP, etc. are going to be working through arrangements with the UAE and Saudi on how to move forward. Longterm the world doesn't really NEED Russia's oil. Hopefully with renewable energy coming online more and more it makes their petro power even more irrelevant.
     
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  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    It took a dip as Biden took over, but still seems to be running pretty strong.

    [​IMG]

    It seems like Putin may have been planning on some pretexts for Western consumption that Biden did a good job undermining by gathering intelligence and announcing Putin's plans before they could be enacted. It all fell flat so Putin went with the naked aggression instead. Of course, his pretexts might be playing much better in Russia and Belarus for all I know.
     
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  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    OMG, you give to the poor you are a socialist or communist. You try to overturn an election and you are fine American Patriots. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Just a bunch of selfish pigs who only care about themselves. Face it, no matter what Biden does there will be GOP politicians crying and complaining. Their only cause is to stir up opposition.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    And you are glossing over racial bias by putting up a pie chart
     
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Agreed, 90% is ridiculous! Per your graph, it's more like 80%!
     
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  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I think it's totally fair to discuss how our media portrays events and victims or comments from journalists that either reflects bias or stokes empathy from an intended audience. They're pretty much our lens into that far off land that most Americans (still) wouldn't be able to pin on a map.

    It can both be a big issue and also a case of having 10,000 baby Jessicas stuck inside a well.

    I guess the latter is preferable to having 10k baby Jessicas living in a rathole dominated by warlords or religious supreme leaders.
     
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  13. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Someone would have to be simple-minded to try to evaluate this situation in those sorts of naively simplistic terms.

    This never should have happened and did not need to happen. The Russians are not going to stand down on there priorities here - period. What Biden and the West are doing is escalating the situation and not doing what will ultimately be required to resolve it. Their imagination of the workings of the current international order are wrong and the first thing they need to do is to accept that.

    They think that we live in a rules based order, with them making the rules (but not following them), which they can dictate to others, including major world powers like the Russians, based on their whim and without consideration for the interests of those other powers. They do this domestically of course as well, and the upcoming election will to some extent be a verdict on how well that attitude is accepted here at home.

    Their world view is under assault from realities of all different sorts and they are flailing hysterically and insidiously in an effort to try to maintain it. That is what is at stake here. Ukraine is just one of the front lines.

    As usual, their methods and strategies are impractical, not well thought out and ultimately cannot succeed. Our so-called "leaders" are leading us without good purpose into suffering, failure and ruin.
     
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I think there are a lot of people, especially who are liberals or moderates, who want to pretend that racial bias only belongs to people like Donald Trump and neonazis - the tiki torch crowd so to speak. The idea that they might have some kind of bias within them is so distasteful that they refuse to even entertain it and thus the reactions you see here.
     
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  16. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    That's because a European war with a nuclear power has the potential to spread and get out of control.
     
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  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    And a war between nuclear armed China and India doesn't? How many people here even know those two were fighting each other just a year or so ago?

    This is a b.s. excuse
     
  18. FranchiseBlade

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    Here is what happened.
    • There is a Democracy in the Ukraine.
    • Russia made an unprovoked invasion of the Democratic nation of Ukraine.
    • The United States and its allies got together to impose sanctions as a response to Russia's aggression.
    • Most of the world condemned Russia's action.
    • Russia is already damaged by the measures taken as a reaction to their unprovoked invasion
    • Russia will be further damaged as it continues.
    • Russia has a choice to either end their hostilities and negotiate an end to the sanctions or to continue and face possibly further repercussions.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    So you are saying Biden should not place sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine? Is that correct?
     
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  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Yes. I don't like topics that make me feel uncomfortable or challenge/provoke me to an extent that changes or influences my thoughts. This could be considered one of them where Middle America considers "preachy".

    It's just when you have open, pure intentioned remarks from journos/politicians like:
    • “This isn’t a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan, that has seen conflict raging for decades,” said CBS News correspondent Charlie D’Agata on Sunday. “This is a relatively civilized, relatively European — I have to choose those words carefully too — city, one where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen.”
    • They seem so like us. That is what makes it so shocking,” wrote Daniel Hannan in a piece for Britain’s the Telegraph. “Ukraine is a European country. Its people watch Netflix and have Instagram accounts, vote in free elections and read uncensored newspapers. War is no longer something visited upon impoverished and remote populations. It can happen to anyone.”
    • “These are not obviously refugees looking to get away from areas in the Middle East that are still in a big state of war,” said Al Jazeera English anchor Peter Dobbie. “These are not people trying to get away from areas in North Africa. They look like any European family that you would live next door to.”
    • Bulgaria’s Prime Minister Kiril Petkov said, “These are not the refugees we are used to. They are Europeans, intelligent, educated people, some are IT programmers ... this is not the usual refugee wave of people with an unknown past. No European country is afraid of them.”
    They're not talking up the Big Superpower with Nukes angle.

    It's deliberately meant to compel you to want to send troops to protect rather than to send troops to eliminate or subjugate.
     

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