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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    They started it a few years ago before Covid - this isn't anything new. It's caused famines in certain countries.

    For some reason they are preparing for the potential of a crisis that would cause a food shortage.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I thought you were against virtue signaling.
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm not really sure what we should read into this. It's possible that the PRC did this as a hedge against US sanctions that are still in place. It's also possible that they did it because their 0 tolerance COVID policy might backfire on them and since their vaccines aren't as good they suffer a massive outbreak as other countries ease restrictions. In which case their economy takes a tumble.

    While the PRC still burn a lot of coal they are well aware of the effects of Climate Change and their environment is already in bad shape. They might just be preparing for an environmental catastrophe in the PRC. Such things have happened several times in Chinese history and one of the first legendary emperors was famous for developing flood control.

    As far as what Xi Jinping thinks this is pure speculation. My guess would be that he figured Putin would do something in the Ukraine and that it would go like Crimea did. Since Xi has no love for the US or NATO he was happy to let Putin be a big headache for them. He's probably not happy that the invasion was bigger than he might've thought but also that it isn't going well and NATO is more united than ever. My guess is even if he doesn't like West he doesn't want the PRC associated with a Russian failure.

    Mostly though Xi understands what the stakes are and doesn't want WWIII that will be difficult for the PRC to stay out of and at the minimum will be devastating to the Global Economy. In that case it will be very very hard for the PRC to recover from COVID and continue their economic growth if there is no one to sell too.
     
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  4. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    What if he goes after Finland next? Another non NATO country. What then?
     
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  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I get it. I would love to do more for Ukraine.

    We've never had a war though between major powers in almost 80 years. WWII was devastating but he World now is far more developed, interconnected and the weapons far far deadlier. If we intervene militarily even just to have a no-fly zone the first time NATO shoots down a Russian plane and/or Russia shoots down a NATO plane we will really be in uncharted territory.
     
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  6. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    #3526 AleksandarN, Mar 2, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
    CrazyJoeDavola and T_Man like this.
  7. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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  8. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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  9. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    Afghanistan.....

    Never ever underestimate your enemy...

    Russia thought they could take over Afghanistan and that didn’t go well...

    T_Man
     
  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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  11. real_egal

    real_egal Contributing Member

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    IMHO, that's a little bit too much of conspiracy theory. China isn't defined by CCP or Xi or Mao or Deng, or any Emperor in the past, but rather defined by its culture and tradition. According to Taoism, the best social status is "小国寡民,..., 老死不相往来", something like small countries/governments, don't press too hard on people, and different people don't interfere or interact with each other. China's angle has been clear and consistent - everybody leaves everybody alone, and let's work hard to make money. As Ronny Chiang said "Asians don't care. They just want to make money."


    It's laughable to claim that China is trying to destroy our way of life or value or whatever. Chinese people don't want to change others, that's why Deng was so right and so popular in China, when he laid the principle of "not to argue about ideology, and not to try to be a leader of any coalition". Mao liked Americans more than the Russians, and refused Russian military base clearly.


    To firmly believe that Russia and China are best buddies and in-bed forever was naïve and misled. Warmongers and the "free press" need an enemy. With Russia on the decline, China gets the top vote. Exactly 53 years ago, on this day, Soviet attacked/invaded an island of China with tanks and bombs. Soviet was the only country has threatened China with nuclear bomb. In the past 300 years, Russia has taken 1.5 million square kilometers from China, that's the size of a country in top 20 of the world. Mongol was separated with the support of Stalin. During WWII, Soviet was pretty much in cooperation with Japan in the beginning, and only declared war on Japan after 8 years, one day before Japan's surrender. What was the action? Red army marched into China, not Japan, to rob and kill and rape.


    What makes you think China and Russia are bound union for sure? Just because CNN, FOX, and the White House told you so? Sure, there is no forever friends or enemies in geopolitics. There are interest aligned and mutual support needed, but history won’t be forgotten and caution still remains. China will never openly support any invasion, but nor would they openly join any sanction against anyone. Even if they do so, the West still sees China as enemy.


    That’s also why I am skeptical of this free press. Shutting down Russian voice, because that’s propaganda and/or state-affiliated, is a pretty weak excuse. Tweet/Facebook tells you what you are allowed to see and hear, and then you are confident that everyone else except the West is brainwashed. I am worried about the overwhelming “good news” of how Russians struggled and failed, some of them turned out to be fake. With photos of that 40-mile long Russian convoy, the positive part is of course Russians didn’t advance, but it also tells you that Ukraine has completely lost air space; otherwise, they are not going to miss that huge target.


    That Bloomberg “honest mistake” by launching “news report of war” before it happened, you don’t see much outrage in the West. But isn’t that much greater sin than shouting fire in a packed theatre, as it’s shouting war in the world with a lie? How do you report something in detail with clear cause and facts before it happens? One reporter alone won’t be able to click that send button. People are OK with it, coz people are now used to op-ed piece acting as news report, especially when they fit their narratives.


    Before I continue to derail the thread, I’d like to say that there is no conspiracy at world stage, only cold calculation of risk/return. Ukraine people have to decide for themselves what’s the best for them. I see good sign in while fighting but still agreeing to negotiations. Removing Putin is not top priority for them, but rather withdrawal of Russian troops is.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm not sure Xi Jinping believes that. While later Ming Dynasty China had the attitude of not concerning itself with other countries there have been periods of Chinese expansionism. Xi Jinping's attitude appears more similar to the time of Zheng He that China might not directly want to take over the World wants the World to acknowledge its greatness.

    Also let's not forget how many border disputes the PRC currently has with almost all of it's neighbors.
    Xi isn't Deng
    I agree the relationship between Russia and the PRC is more out of convenience and having common enemies. I also brought up that the PRC and USSR fought a war and there still are long standing disputes that have been papered over.

    I agree we don't really know what is going on there. There is very much a fog of war and all reports especially coming from Russian or Ukrainian sources should be taken with a grain of salt. That said it's pretty hard to hide a Russian military convoy stalling out when even private commercial satellites can see it.

    I personally don't think the war is going as badly for Russia as many think but I don't think it's going fine for them either.

    Of course the Ukrainian need to decide for themselves. That is why most of the World supports them.
     
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  13. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I doubt China wants to be seen as enablers to a grossly unpopular invasion.

    For now, they'll probably abet Russia in laundering funds as it helps them fine tune ways to circumvent SWIFT or stress test whatever alternative they're cooking.

    As for ambitions to Taiwan, Xi will prob secure his third (lifetime?) term as General Secretary. So prob no funny business until then. I suppose if there was, then his spot isn't as locked as the media think it is.
     
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  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Just confirming what some people are thinking.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...2/ukraine-russia-war-racism-media-middle-east
     
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  16. HTM

    HTM Member

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    War between Russia and Ukraine gets a lot more attention and interest (including in right here in the D&D) then war/genocide in Yemen, Myanmar or East Africa.

    It is interesting to see. So many people, “omg a horrible war and horrible human suffering” - like, have you not been looking around the world? There’s been horrible wars and human suffering that’s been going on continually for decades just nobody pays attention.
     
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  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Lets invade Russia while they are busy, I mean when Germany rolled into Russia they were treated as HEROES and liberators, until they started scorching the earth and the Russians figured out they were just as bad as Stalin.


    I am 100% sure that the Russians today would love Putin to be out - so let's take him out.

    obviously kidding, but I wish.

    DD
     
    #3537 DaDakota, Mar 3, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
  18. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I think the attention it gets because it is more of possible spreading of the war that could lead to world war 3. The threat is bigger stakes are higher. Doesn’t mean Ukrainians lives are more important than Syrian, Yemen,Myanmar or East Africa or any country’s lives for that matter who at war.
     
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  19. HTM

    HTM Member

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    It gets play because it’s in Europe and involves Europeans.

    Its missing white girl syndrome.

    NATO has stated over and over it won’t fight Russia over Ukraine. There’s no real reason to believe WW3 is imminent or a real possibility.

    Nobody is marching in the streets for Yemen and how many untold thousands have died there?

    Lets not act like their isn’t more media/western interest because this is European and involves white people.
     
  20. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    The stakes are higher on the geopolitical scale than those other conflicts. Do I think that those lives matter. Of course I do. Say if the war was China and Taiwan. That battle would over shadow the other conflicts in the world. So saying it is because of Europeans is false. Same thing if North Korea attacks South Korea. The stakes are high and threats are greater it would get the same attention as the Russian invasion
     
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