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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Why not also increase production - I am sure the local oil companies would like to take advantage of $100 barrels of oil.


    DD
     
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  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    If Finland joins NATO and then Putin invades Finland, Putin would be invading a NATO country which would be WW3 ... and a second front to Putin's war with the rest of the world.
     
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    A no fly zone isn't going to tip the balance of the war - do you think it will stop Russian artillery and missiles? And we aren't just sitting by idly here - I'm not even talking the economic and political isolation being put on Russia that I can't remember being done to a country before outside of perhaps Iran.

    We're giving aid to Ukraine, and it is receiving lethal aid as well.

    Engaging Russia in a war is not the only way - and that's what I feel. If you can isolate Russia economically and politically that would be step one - a very strong coalition that says the price for annexing another country is now this. Completely isolation and devastation of your economy. The 2nd step is to look at vulnerable non-nuclear states and find ways to shore up their defense against potential invasions.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Joe Manchin is right.
     
  6. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    It's Europe. Unfortunately, what we've seen is the milder side. At least they're not being pushed off platforms in front of running trains like in Germany for not being white for example...

    The shift to the right and rise in extremist racism has been a slow burn there since the late 90s. It's largely socio-economic driven. Which is why it's wrong when people are saying they shouldn't care about this invasion because of the maltreatment of black people who are trying to flee. The world is about to get tougher economically...
     
    #3186 hooroo, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Maybe it would be WWIII ......... but remember the Russians have the nuclear weapon trump card.

    I wouldn't assume an invasion of Finland would result in an immediate WWIII.
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

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    Nothing is stopping them.
     
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  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    While we rightfully praise Ukraines defiance in the face of Russian aggression, yea, they have racism problems. You hear about the racism in certain parts of Europe (especially Eastern Europe) a lot if you follow European soccer closely.
     
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  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Far Right.

    DD
     
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There were Ukrainians giving free food and housing to minorities trying to get across the border.

    They were also given free food and passage once in Poland.

    I don't know enough about it, but what the Ukrainian police said that Ukrainian citizens were given preference over non-citizens. Is that the case or were they also not letting minority citizens get across the border?

    What I can say is that Europe is DEFINITELY more racist than the USA or Canada. Casual and vocal racism is allowed and no one is judged for it for the most part. I can also say that Africans have been entering Europe illegally, and there are widely disliked by the majority of Europeans. There is and also has been a dislike of middle eastern immigrants.

    Some of it is interesting, for example in places like France and the UK they argue that letting in foreigners with vastly different cultures and religions results in the France or UK losing their culture. Even in the more welcoming areas, they strongly believe that the immigrants need to quickly adopt the culture and language of their new country. It is very different than the US and Canada.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Joe Manchin isn't far right.

    His voting record is largely consistent with a conservative democrat.

    Having said that, he can be incredibly annoying and beholden to special interests.

    My comment was specific to cutting off oil from Russia though.
     
  13. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    US oil companies don't hold back on production like OPEC countries do. They don't really turn taps on and off. For the US to increase production you have to go all in on new drilling.
     
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  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    We do as well.

    Mutual Assured Destruction.

    Any World versus Russia war would be have to be limited to conventional weapons. I can not see an alternative. End Game would be tricky AF.
     
    #3194 No Worries, Mar 1, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
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  15. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    The American identity is supposed to be built on the idea of a melting pot. Add your culture with our culture to enrich it and make it different. That fails if you keep your culture apart or if it doesn't align with our Western values. Places like France have a more definitive "French" culture based on their shared history. They don't want to change. They aren't a melting part. You either join their culture or you're not welcome. Neither is actually inherently right or wrong I guess.

    I would say that the French way of thinking is probably the more predominate way of thinking for most countries. Its what has made the US historically different form other countries. It is also surprising to a lot of Americans: that the US is basically the least racist country on the planet. Most other countries are overtly racist and think nothing about it.
     
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  16. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    I don't think the US should get into a shooting war with Russia in a non-NATO country on the border of Russia. If one Russian jet, missile, or tank crosses into NATO then it's on. If we were going to be involved in Ukraine it should have been done days ago. Now it's a bombed out mess with enviromental disasters all over and Russian troops deep into the territory. Ukrainian forces are getting beaten down and pushing the Russians back would likely mean needing NATO ground troops. It could have been stopped with just air 2-3 days ago.

    If we want to flex on Russia I'd prefer to look a little closer to home. Have a heart to heart with the Cuban president. Would he like to cede power to the US without a shot being fired or does he want to eat a hellfire missile to kickoff the invasion?

    If China wants to get sporty in Taiwan then Japan gets nukes an we drop the 82nd airborne on the Panama Canal since it is owned by a Chinese company.

    Venezuela has the most oil reserves in the world and has a hard on for Putin. Getting US oil companies in there could easily triple their daily production and could further isolate Russia.
     
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  17. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    That's tough to watch but war is ugly.
     
  18. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    RE: your question, two takes
    1. I think he might recognize the occupation will be worse than the war at this point, and/or
    2. Talking ceasefire is just PR to make him seem less monstrous. "oh yeah, I wanted peace, but you know how those 'U-crazy-uns' can be. LOL"
     
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  19. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    In my books there are no good guys or bad guys, just powerful people who still have a tribal mindset and only look into their own or their tribes interests. Obviously on a scale there are levels to the danger this present as not all have the same system of checks and balances . But, they all have blood on their hands in the interest of the motherland/stakeholders. As a globe if we don't break this we will continue to repeat history. Russia is only doing what it needs to just like USA did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. Every nation looks after its own interests and this goes against the interests of humanity. I hate it when people identify themselves as being from a political ideology, race, or country. I feel only stupid people allow themselves to be programmed by a system or tribal/cultural ideology, you really are not thinking for yourself.

    Not sure how you break this cycle, but having a global new order makes sense, with a continuous 24 month rolling change of randomly selected global citizens. Group of 1,000,000 people voting on how this world runs. An IQ test will be required , plus no criminals/fundamentalists.....lol the world's problems are solved.
     
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  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I don't think Russia ever recovers from this PR massacre until Putin's gone, even if it's 20 more years.
     

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